Send Out Cards: You’ve Been Had!

By: Dennis Yu

A guest post by Dennis Yu, CEO of BlitzLocal, provider of local Internet advertising services.   

    

102236_f260A quick primer on SendOutCards.com: It is a MLM scheme, like many other MLM schemes.  It just happens to be one of the newest, and it’s popular with stay at home parents who can’t work outside their homes. The idea is that you can send greeting cards to friends, family, coworkers and whoever without ever going to the store to buy a card; you just type the message into a form on a website and the card gets printed and sent without you having to do anything else.  It actually sounds like a pretty decent product – except that’s not actually the point of the program. The object of Send Out Cards is to find more distributors and get more people selling, because the more people sell the more you make.  Classic.   

    

The Facts:    

    

I don’t know about you, but I’d think that it’s pretty hard to argue with the facts that Send Out Cards themselves publishes.  Nobody has made it to Level 7– the Eagle, 95.5% of users are still stuck at level 1 (Distributor), and 69% of Distributors did ZERO income.  But don’t take our word for it– here is what SendOutCards.com published themselves:   

    

sendoutcards income   

    

We talked in a previous post about whether Send Out Cards is a scam, and this lady named Sandy wrote an impassioned defense (total page has 4,634 words)– her self-proclaimed credentials are that she’s a Social Networking expert, a successful attorney, and, of course, a vigorous defender of Send Out Cards.  Let’s just say that the product is, like she says, of amazing quality and that people just love it.  It’s so good, she claims, that you don’t even need to sell the system because it sells itself.  Obviously that’s not the case because she’s so impassioned about selling it.  All we have to do is to look at what Send Out Cards say themselves – it clearly does not sell itself because nobody makes any money selling it, duh.   

    

1283_420_280_crop_f451bStay-at-home parents should have their guard up when someone tells them something that sounds too good to be true. We aren’t like other workers.  We have to stay at home to make money, and we can sometimes get desperate because of our limited options.  If it sounds fishy, it is fishy – period. Sure — there are beautiful people in their video– just like you- telling success stories to inspiring background music.  Makes you want to pull out your credit card and sign up right now.   

    

Do cigarettes cause cancer?  Of course not.   

Will that attractive lady go home with you if you drink the right beer?  Most certainly!   

Is Send Out Cards your way to get rich?  Definitely– just ask Sandy!   

    

pyramidschemeOur previous post now ranks #6 in Google for “Sendoutcards.com scam” and has been attracting attention. That’s what happens when you’re on the first page of a reasonably popular term.  And you don’t even need to be an Internet marketing expert to do it.  Just write good stuff in your blog– and when people promote it, Google notices, thus giving you a boost in search results.   Sandy has unwittingly boosted our previous post up the rankings with her vigorous defense or the system. Why not take advantage of that and hit another one out of the park, right?   

    

So if you’re a stay at home parent and want to consider Send Out Cards– is it a scam? Not necessarily.  If you want to buy overpriced cards (when factoring in the cost to join, plus all the people who get paid when you do join), then the cost is probably not that different than buying cards at the store, and it is, in Sandy’s defense, a convenient way to send cards – if you buy enough cards to really cover the cost of joining the scheme.  For sending cards it’s not a scam. Sandy is right about that. But, for making money?  Yes!  It is most definitely a scam. You are 95.5% guaranteed to make very very little money and 69% guaranteed to make no money at all (or lose money).  Those are the facts.   

    

If you want to test the program, you should talk to Sandy in the earlier post– if you sign up under her link, she gets paid.

1,329 Responses to “Send Out Cards: You’ve Been Had!”
  1. BigLittleWolf November 18, 2009 at 12:07 pm #

    This is classic. And a very helpful reminder for all of us. A lot of scams and schemes out there, and so many more ways to inject them into our lives.
    .-= BigLittleWolf´s last blog ..Boys don’t make passes at girls who wear glasses =-.

    • Keith November 18, 2009 at 2:35 pm #

      Thanks BigLittleWolf. As always, you get it :-)

      • Bryan January 20, 2012 at 2:02 pm #

        If this is not legal and you do not report it? are you obstructing Justice?

      • Josh March 15, 2013 at 7:40 pm #

        You are ignorant sir. Send out Cards is not a scam!

    • Leslie O August 11, 2011 at 1:45 pm #

      I just had to reply because the ignorance here is huge. I am NOT a Sendoutcards distributor, but a customer and am very happy with their products. I have also tried a few
      Direct Sales companies where I failed – mostly because I didn’t do what I was told and trained to do!

      However my beef with you, Almighty Dad, with all due respect, is that you do not know the difference between Pyramids, which are illegal, MLM’s and network marketing.

      Pyramids focus on recruiting solely, cost a lot of money to get in, and they have a “token” product so they can call themselves legal. They tell people all they have to do is bring more people in and they will get rich. Pyramids collapse quickly and only the people who start them make money. They then move on, start another pyramid and fluke more people out of their hard earned cash through greed.

      MLMs – Not a bad system. You sign someone up under you and they have to buy inventory.
      YOU get a % of their WHOLESALE inventory purchase from the company as the recruiter/trainer. If you have a good trainer, it’s totally legit and you can make money.

      My company, which I will not name because I’m not out here to get recruits but to educate you,
      is a Network marketing company. If I bring someone into the company, I get a % of their retail SALES, so if they don’t make money, I don’t make money. A GREAT system! There’s
      no inventory to purchase. BTW, I have made good money doing my DS company business for 18 years. $80,000 a year right now but I have earned up to $125,000 a year, depending on my attitude and how hard I chose to work.

      There are more women earning over $100,000 a year in Direct Sales than any other business in the US and now men are really getting on the bandwagon too.

      There are definite benefits to having your own MLM or network marketing businesses:

      1. Extra income – in this economy, everyone should be looking for multiple streams of income
      2. HUGE Tax benefits
      3. Many other benefits, tangible and intangible, like trips, recognition and appreciation, flexibility, high quality training that is great for future work endeavors.

      So….WHY DON’T MORE PEOPLE EARN REAL MONEY IN LEGIT DIRECT SALES???

      1. They won’t do what they are trained to do because:

      2. They’re afraid of the word Sales person – they don’t realize that Sales is a service and sales jobs keep other jobs going! Manufacturers, Distributors, etc.

      3. They’re afraid of NO’s – think it’s a personal rejection instead of a rejection of their product.

      4. Inconsistent – if they hit a roadblock, they get discouraged and don’t push through. There’s no BOSS to tell them they have to Consistent actions are key.

      4. Unbelief – in themselves mostly but maybe in the product / company they are working with.

      Those that DO WORK their business DO make money in legitimate Direct Sales businesses!

      It’s the old 80/20 rule:

      You wear 20% of your clothes 80% of the time, you use 20% of your tools 80%
      of the time, and 20% of people do 80% of productivity.

      I feel your articles like this are harmful because they may discourage someone who really needs and wants extra income, from trying something that may not but could change their life.
      IT’S UP TO THEM HOW FAR THEY TAKE IT.

      Direct Sales is a way for people to own and run their very own business without a ton of financial risk ( Except for pyramids)

      Donald Trump said His one regret is that he never got involved in Direct Sales.
      Warren Buffet bought The Pampered Chef.

      These are businessmen who understand and see the value of Direct Sales. You should not
      lump them all together.

      Sincerely, Leslie O

      • Keith August 11, 2011 at 4:48 pm #

        Leslie: If you read what i’ve written in the comments, it should be clear that I actually do understand what a pyramid scheme is. Lets use a little logic here with your comment. You aren’t with Sendout Cards so you say. But, you must be an MLMer or you wouldn’t have spent so much time repeating the MLM mantra in your comments. I’m very intentionally discouraging people from MLM. I wish it had worked on you, too because like just about everyone else in MLM you haven’t and won’t make any money. It isn’t because you’re incompetent or a bad worker. It’s very simply because the system sees to it that you won’t succeed.

        • Leslie O August 21, 2011 at 3:28 pm #

          Keith,

          You obviously didn’t read my entire letter. I would encourage you to do so.

          I AM in Network marketing and I have failed at a couple of MLM’s before so I can see where you might be coming from. BUT THESE ARE NOT ALL PYRAMIDS. I found a company that I love the products AND company. I personally earn an average $80,000 a year – and have for 15 of the 18 years I’ve been with them. I have many downline consultants who also make good income doing this, and live on their incomes.

          Yes, the average DS person makes about $100 to $500 a month. But that is for the reasons I stated in my previous “epistle”. Many people just want a few hundred extra dollars. IT’S NOT THAT THIS IS NOT A GOOD BUSINESS – IT’S THAT YOU GET OUT OF IT WHAT YOU PUT INTO IT.

          Direct Sales is a legitimate way to do business and when you make blanket statements like that you are either ignorant or have failed at it ( as I have before) and now feel it’s all a scam because THEY didn’t do well.

          You really do people a dis-service when you make blanket statements like that.

          Sincerely,
          Leslie O

          • Keith August 21, 2011 at 3:41 pm #

            Leslie: I can’t remember if I read your whole letter. Maybe I didn’t. In any case, I just read it now. Nothing changes.

            • Paul Gates June 6, 2012 at 8:22 pm #

              Keith, I hate to tell you this, but you really don’t understand how network marketing works. It’s obvious from your comments. And by the way, I’m not an MLMer. However, it has been proven individuals involved in direct marketing are 5 times more likely to make a six figure income than those that aren’t.
              Anyone who is an employee is in a “pyramid scam” by your definition. Employees make less money than their supervisors, the supervisors make less money than the owner, and the owner leverages his employees time to make money. So everything is a “pyramid scam”. I don’t understand why you don’t call the cops if its a scam??

              • Keith June 6, 2012 at 8:26 pm #

                Paul: Obviously you are either an MLMer or a prospective MLMer else you wouldn’t be searching on MLM related search terms — idiot.

                • mike March 16, 2013 at 4:59 pm #

                  Keith!

                  Either your dumb or ignorant.

                  MLM is not a scam. It may deceive people into thinking they can become rich quickly – but it is not a scam.

                  The definition of a scam:
                  A fraudulent business scheme; a swindle.

                  What MLM companies do is not fraudulent. Thus it is not a scam. End of story.

            • Gerta June 17, 2012 at 11:41 am #

              Keith,

              I am neither a MLMer nor a direct marketer. I was looking for info about SendOutCards because I plan to use them to send cards to my hundreds of past clients and almost 2000 potential clients.

              Calling it like I see it, you totally ignore the comments from those on the other side of the argument. God gave you two ears (in this case two eyes) and one mouth for a reason. Be a little more open to receiving the other side’s argument and perhaps people might be more open to listening to you.

              IMO, both sides have jerks on a mission. The way I see it, you are one of those on your side. Having seen everything I’ve seen in my lifetime, while SendOutCards doesn’t appear to be another Amway, Fuller Brush, or Mary Kaye, in 10 – 20 years we may look back at this post and say we both had it wrong. Only time will tell.

              • Keith June 17, 2012 at 3:17 pm #

                Gerta: So, because I disagree with almost everything you SOC kool aid drinkers say that means I don’t understand or listen? Seriously, God did give me two ears and a mouth. We have two ears for perfectly good evolutionary reasons and it has nothing to do with listening more than we speak. Now, calling it like I see it, you are seriously delusional. I did not have anything wrong, and we don’t need to wait to find out. None of these numbers are invented or wrong. You can look for yourself or you can continue to maintain that it’s all just a matter of opinion.

                • Michael Durish August 30, 2013 at 12:14 am #

                  Looked at SOC lately quite a few at level 7 and many on the way. I really love when people bash what they clearly don’t understand and it comes back to slap them in the face. Your credibility is now 0.00.

            • BuckFarack January 5, 2013 at 9:47 am #

              Keith, you obviously subscribe to the old saying that says “Don’t confuse me with the facts, because my mind is already made up.”

              • Insurance Agent of 25 years March 24, 2013 at 2:30 pm #

                Just ran across this when I was looking at SOC as a lead generation tool for my insurance business. I read a number of the posts and it appears someone that hates MLM (did you try IT and IT didnt work?) fighting those who like the idea of MLM and are trying to make something more of their lives.

                I guess you would have to classify my business as a scam also because the numbers and income levels of people trying to make it as insurance agents is much worse than even MLM.
                Most agents quit the business and never make any money. The companies make all the money etc., the managers make all the money, everyone is trying to sell theiir friends and relatives etc. etc. etc…same evil story that’s told about MLM.

                The fact is that only 4% (that’s only 400 out of 100,000 businesses ever see a ten year aniversary and most people that try their hand at any entrepreneurial endevor fail. Why should anyone expect MLM to be different? In fact it should be worse as most of the people that join have no clue in how to make a businesss wory…They try IT and and then blame IT or their upline or the company or the Republicans or the Democrats when IT doesn’t work…but it is never them.

                As for all the money that the uplines of these people make off all these poor losers. How is that any different than all the money the colleges and professors make from all the studenta that have their parents spent $150,000 to $250,000 or more putting their kids through college because they have had the dream painted for them only to find that they can’t even get a job? Or my favorite is all the time and money spent on organized sports and specal coaching and equipment and tournaments etc. over 16 years or more in hopes that their kid can make it into the PROs when only one on a million makes it. And many of those that do are injured cdan’t can’t play.

                Long live direct selling and MLM. It;s the only chance for many people. As for me I’d rather to have loved and lost, then never have loved at all.

                My advice to my children has always been on your gravestone if they write “He made it” or “He died trying” you did a good job.

                As for Leslie even if SOC does not end up being your vehicle ( and I think it will) long after you have found the success you want Keith will still be satisfied with spending his time finding fault with those that want to make something happen… including condemnation of a whole industry.

                I wonder wht MLM ever did to him?

          • PIPER September 3, 2011 at 11:44 pm #

            Leslie O – YOU GO GIRL!! LOVE THAT RESPONSE! RIGHT ON!!!!!!!

          • Julie October 27, 2011 at 6:31 am #

            Leslie,
            Having read your letter I am very sorry to inform you the Network Marketing and MLM all work exactly the same way. You’re getting a % of their “Sales”, but how does the company really know how much the consultant is selling? Do some buy product to have on hand? And if they do are you getting a % from that? If so, then it is exactly the same as MLM.

            As for the claim that this MLM is a pyramid scheme: With most MLMs yes, you can sell at the bottom and make money, but you make very little unless you are earning commission. The higher up you are, the most commission you earn. For it not to be a pyramid scheme, everyone must earn the same rate of commission. My specific ex MLM claims that they do, just because everyone up the line earns 50% on the product. Convinently forgetting to mention the commission side of it.

            That’s my argument. Good luck in your MLM

            • RacerWife7 May 11, 2012 at 10:15 am #

              Hi Julie,
              SendOutCards distributors (at all levels) don’t have any “product on hand” at any time. There is no huge order you are required to purchase at the beginning because there isn’t any ‘inventory’. All customer purchases are made through a secure website, linked to the main SOC site. That’s how the company monitors what the distributor has sold and how it calculates pay for said distributor.

              Honestly, I don’t see or know the difference between NM & MLM – I thought they were the same, myself. But, the fact is, you do get out of it what you put in.

          • Angela November 7, 2011 at 8:40 am #

            Hello Leslie,

            I just read your post and am very interested in what your company is and what product(s) you sell. I am a stay at home mom with an in-home daycare business and am looking for more income.

            Please respond.

            Thanks,
            Angela

            • Lisa November 18, 2011 at 5:37 pm #

              Hi Angela,

              I don’t know if you heard back from Leslie, but I’m a Silpada Designs Representative. We sell beautiful .925 hand-crafted sterling silver jewelry. I would love to talk to you about the Silpada Business Opportunity. You can contact me at mrslisagray@hotmail.com.

              Sterling regards,
              Lisa

              • ted February 22, 2012 at 8:53 pm #

                why market in the middle of a discussion. how rude!

            • Sharon November 18, 2011 at 8:30 pm #

              I have been in send out cards two years and it works if YOU work!

              • Ms. Bologna January 3, 2013 at 11:16 am #

                I have worked my A## off and made approximately $10.00/month. So guess what – I cancelled my distributorship which would have cost $59 to renew. I do enjoy using SOC but don’t believe that one can make money at it.

            • Lu Ann Watson February 7, 2012 at 11:24 pm #

              Hi,
              I would love to talk to you about ta geat opportunity that would allow you to stay home with your kids! Please feel free to email, call or txt me for additional info. My cell number is 352.895.4106
              Thanks,
              Lu Ann Watson ;-))

          • Tammy June 27, 2013 at 10:45 am #

            Leslie,

            I would be interested in knowing what company you are with. I am a distributor with SOC and love it. I honestly haven’t really gotten started only because I am busy with 8 year old twins and starting a recruiting job.
            Thanks in advance for your reply.

        • Chris December 2, 2011 at 6:56 am #

          I take some of your points on board,but you are wrong when you say that money cant be earned with
          a networking company. I have recently joined Avon Cosmetics,just part time to start with.
          Only 4 months in and i have already replaced my “wage” with commission,I met a Lady on Monday who had been working with Avon for nine years,her name is Debbie Davis,,,check her out on you tube.
          She now earns £400,000 per year….every year…Avon is one of the most ethical companies I have ever seen…go check them out ,,see what you think..
          Chris Mason….uk.

        • Mike M January 23, 2012 at 8:39 am #

          Hi Keith

          It’s clear your bitter. I am sure you got burned by some “MLM’s” (me too). Most MLM’s seem like scams to me as well. That being said you do get what you put in with everything!! Using your example of work out equipment, let’s say a gym… Ask them how many members they have. Than ask them how many members show up and work out regularly. Trust me they make their money on every member not just the ones that show up. By your theory the gym (no matter how good) is a scam and a rip off because the folks that don’t show up are still fat and out of shape but they still pay!! Right? Wrong! The gym is there, well equipped and ready any time they are. They won’t lift a weight, their fault for the end result. Talk to the guy or gal that shows up 4 to 6 days a week and works out hard, looking good! Feeling strong… are they being ripped off? Most people that sign up in mlm’s are not action takers and leaders that’s why they have a “job” they need to be told what to do and are happy that way. When placed in charge of their own destiny they opt out and retreat back to the comfort zone they feel happy in, no crime, just life. So who is to blame? No “blame” we have freedom of choice we pick what we do and don’t do… Try this, go to a card store get 10 cards for no special reason just “thinking of you” get out your address book pick 10 people you love or care about write a heart felt message in each card, address it and MAIL it! A real card not a text or and email of a facebook poke. Sit back and watch what happens. All good, believe it. Your phone will ring and the words, thank you will come to you. Than an exchange of love and connection we have all forgot about long ago. I dare you! Consider it a challenge. Do it than talk… Like it or hate it send out card has a great long forgotten art, gratitude, love and connection. Bash them for making that easier or try it and feel the warmth of emotion for loved ones and lost connections. I’m not an Send Out Card sucker just someone that used their basic account, sent some cards and wow! Worth the cost (less than a buck) to get a huge return. Take my challenge than reply… Be well, be happy.
          Mike

          • Keith January 23, 2012 at 8:58 am #

            Mike: I’m not bitter. In fact, I didn’t even know what SOC was before Dennis wrote this article. I’ve written about how I think fitness clubs are rip-offs. But, just like MLM’s, they aren’t rip-offs for the reasons you say, simply not putting in the effort. They’re scams because of their shady business practices and dishonest membership contracts.

            • Jeff Turner April 20, 2012 at 4:00 pm #

              Have you even tried the SendoutCards service? There is no membership fee, the service is great.

            • Norm June 10, 2012 at 2:38 pm #

              Keith,

              Please tell us specifically what shady business practices and dishonest membership practices SOC is guilty of. I think that it is intellectually dishonest to make accusations without backing them up with some proof (ii.e. irrefutable facts). So please, enlighten us. Thank you for your time.

            • garry May 27, 2013 at 8:19 pm #

              Keith, as usual, you, as with others, who put down network marketing don’t have an actual case beyond unsupported claims, arguments by innuendo and other logical fallacies. If you think you can present an actual argument that is properly and adequately supported against network marketing, then go for it, but I recommend that you first learn how to rationally accomplish that end.

          • Manuela March 22, 2012 at 3:29 pm #

            Well said made. You get what you put in. Who cares if it is mlm, pyramid or whatever. If I get money for giving other people the chance to gain financial freedom, when they are committed to change their life, why not? Where is the rip off then? Nobody gets sick from it or what ever, You always get what you put in!

        • Andrew January 25, 2012 at 1:53 pm #

          I am sorry, but i have to step in… Keith you obviously have no idea what send out cards is… for one, in your article, you state that there are no eagles… well there are 4 of them as of now… Jordan Adler, Demarr Zimmerman, Tommy Wayett, and Curtis Lewsey… I have been personally working with Curtis Lewsey for the past two months and this question has arisen numerous times… All I ask you to do is watch this video…

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZiw15VgWoI

          you are trying to make a legal Pyramid business strategy look like people should not be involved with it… Traditional business get customers to purchase their products, then they put millions of dollars into advertising with T.V, magazines, the internet… etc! Thats how they make their money… With a legitimate pyramid business structure, instead of paying advertising with T.V and magazines, we are paid to advertise the product to others… There are many ponzi schemes where everyone on the top makes money by marketing a product that does not exist or can hardly be used, they then make money off of the people they recruit to use the product… With Send Out Cards, everyone who makes money is off of the product.. they get paid for people to use the product, and if people do not use the product they do not get paid… It is far from a scam!!! Maybe you should do more research before you try and contradict something that is completely legal!

          • Andrew January 25, 2012 at 1:56 pm #

            sorry I meant dennis… I accidentally wrote keith

          • Betty R January 28, 2012 at 8:47 am #

            Wow FOUR Eagles? Before this number impresses you so, the question you should be asking math challenged Andrew, is four out of HOW MANY. Send Out Cards appears to assign distributor numbers sequentially and right now new distributors are assigned numbers in the 130,000 range. Assuming that number is how many have joined since the founding of Send Out Cards, 4 out of 130,000 is 0.003%. If we use the more reliable number of 30,000 active current distributors, we get .01%. And if that 130,000 number is what it appears to be, that means 76% of distributors who joined are no longer active–so much for that “lifetime residual income!” and “people never stop using the system once they start!”. If those numbers aren’t right, why don’t you ask your Eagle buddy for the right numbers and calculate it yourself. What does that say about the probability of you making it to Eagle? People win the lottery too, that doesn’t mean YOU are going to win. But you’re special, right? If the dream is big enough, the facts don’t count! Sorry, but they do and will always win in the end.

            This article does not say Send Out Cards is illegal, it’s not. Implying in marketing you can get financial freedom from building a Send Out Cards business but having a disclosure statement showing 99.8% don’t get there is scummy, but sadly, legal.

            • Joell January 31, 2012 at 7:57 am #

              Hey,

              Everyone I know who is actually working at this is making money–some of them are working harder than others and making enough money to quit their old jobs. Not bad in this day and age. That is why I’ve decided to do SendOutCards as a full-time business. I don’t have a problem with work where I’m selling a high quality product. Isn’t that the old American way?

              Guess what? Those that don’t make time to work it aren’t making a dime.

              Don’t spread rumors about things you aren’t familiar with.

              • Keith January 31, 2012 at 9:45 am #

                Joell. do you know the meaning of the word rumor? Apparently not because what you see in this article is the cold, hard facts — not a rumor. And, yes, this disclosure is a few years old. But, guess what? The new one doesn’t look much different. Same sad bunch of suckers who think it’s only about hard work and determination. Sorry, but you haven’t made any money in SOC and you most certainly wont start anytime soon. Sad, but that’s the way it’s designed. for you to keep feeding into it and for it to return nothing to you. And, along the way, you can scam your family and friends and drag them down the hole with you.

                • Joell January 31, 2012 at 10:07 am #

                  I AM LIVING IT. Are you? If the hard-working folks in SendOutCards who I know are suckers, then making money selling a great product really sucks!

                • Joell January 31, 2012 at 10:10 am #

                  I have made money and you mustn’t write things about me that are not true. Please remove the statement that I have not made money.

                  Watch it!

                  • Keith January 31, 2012 at 10:19 am #

                    Yeah, Joell, if you want to prove me wrong then I’ll be happy to revise my based-on-more-than-sufficient-statistics assumption. Remember, when calculating how much money you have made, you have to subtract your cost. I’d be willing to bet you’re in the negative after all the math is done! Of course, provide me with all the facts, and this can be very easily settled. Short of that I’m calling your bluff.

                    • Joell January 31, 2012 at 10:28 am #

                      I have no bluff. I have no responsibility to report my income to you. You have made negative personal statements about me and the way I do business. You know absolutely nothing of me. I do see that you chose not to publish my first response that explained how/why I got into SendOutCards in the first place. I

                    • Keith January 31, 2012 at 10:30 am #

                      Joell, I have published everything you have written that has come to me for approval.

                • Joell January 31, 2012 at 10:17 am #

                  I have never scammed anyone and I have the highest degree of integrity. Please watch what you are putting out there!

                • Joell January 31, 2012 at 10:48 am #

                  If you have published everything that I have submitted, as per your 10:30 am posting, how is it that you responded, as per your 9:45 am posting “And, yes, this disclosure is a few years old. But, guess what? The new one doesn’t look much different.” If this is not referring to content in the first message I sent that doesn’t appear here, then just what are you getting at?

                  • Keith January 31, 2012 at 11:08 am #

                    Joell, I published all your comments. If you don’t see them then that’s you’re problem. I responded directly to one of your approved comments. I have not deleted, redacted or spammed anything you’ve written. Believe it or don’t believe it because even if I had deleted something of yours and tried to deny it, and then you tried to prove how I really did delete it, why wouldn’t I also delete or spam your accusation? Come on, Joell. Look at these thousands comments for a moment. How many are horribly incoherent and unworthy of publishing? Lots, right? I think, in the history of this thread, I’ve deleted maybe 3 or 4 comments. And, that’s just because they used bad language or were threatening. If there is a comment that isn’t showing up then it’s not because i didn’t approve it.

                    • Joell January 31, 2012 at 11:51 am #

                      I really don’t have more time to deal with this today. But I think the reason you didn’t post my original longer message was because it was from the heart and made a lot of sense. I’ll resubmit it if it makes any difference.

                    • Keith January 31, 2012 at 11:56 am #

                      You’re an idiot, joell. I did publish everything I got from you and that’s the end of the story. I told you that i approve almost everything that comes to me. What would make you so special that I wouldn’t? Oh, yeah, it’s because you’re so sincere and honest. I just can’t handle the truth, right? Seriously. If it isn’t showing then I don’t know what to tell you. It is NOT because I didn’t approve it. It either never got to me (lost between your click and my inbox) or I approved it and then it went missing. But, I repeat to you because you don’t listen, I did NOT trash it.

                    • Joell January 31, 2012 at 12:35 pm #

                      I am not an idiot. I have an extremely high IQ.

                      Name calling is a last resort–a smokescreen. Why should I trust you and your broad, sweeping & uneducated comments about me and my business?

                      I offered to resubmit my original post, whatever the reason was that it didn’t show up.

                      You have never once addressed the fact that we offer a unique high-quality product at incredibly low cost. Anyone who wishes to be educated about the products we offer can visit the company website and see for themselves. I am not attempting to solicit business for myself as visiting that website will bring me no personal business at all.

                    • Keith January 31, 2012 at 12:41 pm #

                      yeah, your extremely high IQ is much like all that money you’re making. We’ll just take your word for it despite the lack of evidence. You don’t have to trust a word I say. Look at the facts. that’s it. You realize that this article is all about the facts, right? There’s no trust involved. And, no you didn’t offer to resubmit your article “whatever the reason was that it didn’t show up.” What you insisted on repeatedly was that I deleted it. I’m telling you I didn’t and that, from what I can tell from your comments, you’re an idiot. That’s an observation. You are free to disagree of course.

                    • Joell January 31, 2012 at 1:49 pm #

                      There is no lack of evidence. Checkmate!

                    • Keith January 31, 2012 at 1:59 pm #

                      What? I don’t see any evidence in my inbox of your income with SOC. I also don’t see any for this mysterious IQ you’ve insisted on. What are you checkmating? Also, your website is the same, canned one as every other SOC site. How do you plan on driving traffic? What are you selling there? Are you selling cards or are you selling opportunity? What makes you different? What’s the motivation to go to you vs. anybody else with the same supposed product? See where this is going, Joell? You have no plan and you have no execution. How do you think I managed to get on the first page of all the search terms related to SOC (and other non-related terms for other articles)? It’s because I’m giving people something unique even if there are loads of people who hate it. What do you have to offer? Hope and dreams?

              • Betty R January 31, 2012 at 3:58 pm #

                I have no doubt there are very hard working, honest people in Send Out Cards. They are so, so hopeful that this “opportunity” will give them the financial freedom they want, but the income disclosure makes it painfully obvious for anyone not blinded by hope and unrealistic optimism that it’s not going to happen for 99.8% of those trusting folks. I find it vile how they are being exploited and manipulated into thinking if they don’t get the money they “could” get it’s because they didn’t work hard enough.

                If you lose your money gambling no one says you “didn’t work hard enough” because everyone knows the house always wins in the end, it’s a statistical certainty–achieving financial freedom or riches in Send Out Cards is the same. Could you make a little money? Sure, a little net after expenses, but the income disclosure shows it sure isn’t “financial freedom” by a long shot–a looooooooong shot. Would people join at the rate they do of they weren’t sold on the dream that if they work hard they could be rich? Of course not.

                Even if you were an Eagle rolling in the big bucks Joell, the income disclosure shows you would the the rare, rare exception so who cares if you are making money? The vast majority of others aren’t (or are making very little) but many of them will tell you they are because they so hope they will be….some day. My friend told me she was making $1500 a month, but when I researched the comp plan, and knowing how many are in her group, I was able to calculate that number was actually in the $100-200 a month range which her brother confirmed. And that’s GROSS–before taxes, her initial cost to buy in, the thousands she’s spent going to events, the new “certified training” costs, the $31 per month autoship, and the $159 in yearly “renewal fees”. Her schedule C will show a net loss of thousands of dollars. She works her ass off for this net loss.

                • Alice February 21, 2012 at 5:51 pm #

                  This Joel guy makes me chuckle. I am a working mom with a 3-1/2 year old and a 10-month old and I just miss my kids so much when I am at work. I wish I can find a gig that will allow me to stay home (like Keith) with my kids, still make sufficient income, and still have free time to debate with …ahem…”eccentrics” like Joel. Still trying to figure it out, but MLM is definitely not for me.

                  • Eleisha March 10, 2012 at 2:27 pm #

                    Alice,
                    I would love to introduce you to Thirty One Gifts! We are real women earning real money that
                    has completely replaced a lot of our full time income. Email me at sid76jones@yahoo.com
                    Check out the product at https://www.mythirtyone.com/135011
                    Change your future today and emal me. I promise you will never regret it.
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                    Eleisha

                    • Keith March 11, 2012 at 10:41 am #

                      As opposed to fake women? And, you have completely replaced a lot of… ? As in completely some of?

        • Jon February 5, 2012 at 6:18 pm #

          You’re so wrong – lots of eagles now. I’m making money. Best business I’ve ever been involved with. You’re just mad because you don’t know how to network. Bad breath?

          • Keith February 5, 2012 at 6:51 pm #

            Jon: I’m wrong? This article was written two years ago, and the stats are almost exactly the same now. Now, big deal, there are 4 eagles. I’m going to say the same thing I tell everyone like you. There is almost no chance that you’ve made money with Send Out Cards. In fact, you’re probably in the hole. I’m making a lot more off of this blog than you ever will with SOC. If you really want to make a living from home, Jon, you ought to start writing — maybe an article that has over 1000 comments and ranks on every meaningful Sendout Cards search term?

          • Betty R February 6, 2012 at 7:41 am #

            In what universe is 4 considered “lots?” Oh right, in the sad, self deluded world of the MLM bot.

      • Robin August 30, 2011 at 10:28 am #

        Leslie-

        I am with you 100%. I have been involved with MLM for many years. I am a single mom. My bills are being paid and I can be with my special needs son. Its all in what you, as an individual, put into it.

        Robin

      • RavenBlack September 15, 2011 at 6:35 pm #

        It’s not really the old 80:20 rule in this case though is it, it’s the less old 998:2 rule. From their own statistics cited, in 2008 less than 0.26% of their members were making over $3000 a month. Or, if you prefer a different cutoff, less than 3% were making over $300 a month. Even 97:3 is not even close to 80:20, and $300 a month is well below poverty levels.

        By the nature of a pyramid scheme, those numbers would also be worse each year.

        I’m inclined to presume that anyone reporting making a successful living in an MLM is someone who either started one or got in *really early*; Leslie O, do you make your $80000+ per year from your own actual sales of the product, or is a significant part of it from your referrals?

        • Fitzy September 21, 2011 at 4:43 am #

          I totally agree with your POV , I was once with ACN, AL Williams and other MLMs, and you are absolutely right, some DS opportunities be considered scams, I am interested in finding out about your current opportunity though….

      • Rob October 3, 2011 at 12:43 pm #

        Leslie, you didnt fail..they are making you feel that way> Please please, go to YouTube and look for Penn and Tellers BS on MLM. They only way to win, is to scam the people you love and care for out of money and into becoming distributors…

        • Keith October 3, 2011 at 12:55 pm #

          Rob: That’s the truth. The big lie that MLMers like repeating is that a person’s earnings are determined only by how hard the person works. That might, as a general rule, be the way life works, but MLM is designed to sustain itself on the backs of distributors. It isn’t designed for distributors to actually make money. Failed MLMers are only failures because they weren’t willing to perpetuate the scam on neighbors, friends and family. I’d call that honest, not failure. And, yes, that Penn and Teller show on MLM is completely spot on. Highly recommend watching it.

          • Thomas October 9, 2011 at 7:00 pm #

            Holy cow, man. I can’t believe the continuous and rabid comments and responses by people defending their decision to be part of a questionably legit ‘business’. Keith, you are correct about this one. Ignore the sad souls with “buyer’s remorse”. I truly wish they hadn’t been duped. feeling ripped off is never a joy.

            It is a marginally useful product sent via the internet from some place that prints the cards and mails them for you. Wow.

            I happen to have met someone today who is involved with this company. At what ‘level’ I cannot say. I can say, however, that if something sounds fishy – it is. She began her pitch in earnest when I explained that I was recently left mostly unemployed and needed to find a way to earn a bit of money to pay bills and stay at home to care for my daughter. After extolling the virtues of a greeting card that need not be purchased at a store I was informed of an upcoming “rally” of some sort in a neighbouring city, the registration for which she would gladly pay if I chose to attend. That was enough to give me the heebie jeebies but I politely continued with the conversation. “Explain to me,” I said, “how it is that a salesperson/middleman has a place in a product sale such as this”. “Why can’t I simply order the card from whichever website sells it and be done with it?” Her answer: Because I need permission to buy it from a distributor first in order to get access to the website.

            I am not an internet sales guru by any stretch but this plan sounds ridiculous. Isn’t unrestricted access to one’s product information the whole point of successful internet sales? If I am the person who came up with the idea in the first place, how does it behoove me to share the glory with thousands of others? There just isn’t enough money to go that far around. You know that already. I know.

      • Heather October 13, 2011 at 3:19 pm #

        Good job Leslie! I have had the SOC system for a couple of years and spent the money on the distributor package and never used it… I am now getting back into it and have read everything I can on the income pages. I have read the page that is being discussed about 95.5% at the distributor level. Obviously Keith did not finish reading this page as well… It clearly states “this includes all active and inactive distributors”. I can say first hand I was one of those 95.5% and I was not trying to do anything with the system other than sell cards. I am very busy and did not have the time to sell it or keep up with the people that I was trying to sell to. I doing it now and in the 2 weeks I have been back in the game, I have signed up one person and have a calendar of appointments to sign up more (6 so far to be exact!). The only reason they are not signed up now is because I am a full time student, a salaried employee, and I volunteer so I still do not have the time to commit to this fully. This system is cheaper than going to the store to buy a card and the quality is better. This is an amazing system for a stay at home parent!

        Keith, read all of the facts and listen to what people have to say before you close-mindedly shut it down…

        • Keith October 13, 2011 at 3:40 pm #

          Heather, I did read it. Listen carefully, Heather because I feel that perhaps it is you who don’t understand what these numbers mean. You had to pay a couple hundred bucks to become a distributor, right? Then you say you didn’t actually make money, right? In fact, you lost money. That is the definition of poor decision making. The reasons you made no money are irrelevant. Oh, you didn’t want to make money, that’s what you claim. Well, that’s even dumber than trying to make money and not making any, but in the end the result is the same — you spent money for the honor of participating in a system and you got next to nothing out of it. Yup, that’s pretty much the essence of this article. You got scammed, suckered, and now you’re making excuses for it rather than just admitting it happened and moving on with your life. If I spend a bunch of money on exercise equipment then realize what I bought is completely impractical and don’t use it I’d probably eventually get the picture that I wasted my money. If I buy the equipment and use it, but still don’t lose weight or get fitter, the results are exactly the same except now I can also admit that the device itself is not effective. So, you just haven’t figured out that you’ve been scammed yet. You haven’t traveled far enough down that path yet. These numbers don’t lie, Heather. 95% is 95% — reasons are irrelevant.

          • Betty R October 24, 2011 at 3:46 pm #

            I had a friend try to sign me up with Send Out Cards. It sounded like Amway to me and indeed, it is–except they ostensibly sell cards and not household goods.

            I took one look at Send Out Cards most recent income disclosure

            https://www.sendoutcards.com/images/pdf/income_disclosure.pdf

            And told my friend no thanks. First off, they state 45% of all distributors earned zero income. Of those who earned anything, this is how it would work for a group of 10,000 people:

            9,226 people would earn an average of $335
            411 people would earn an average of $919
            334 people would earn an average of $5,058
            26 people would earn an average of $33,000
            3 people would earn an average of $111,000
            1 person would earn an average of $546,000

            It costs about $400 to sign up as a distributor, $31 a month in “personal volume” and a yearly renewal fee of around $50 to “qualify” to get paid your commissions. That alone adds up to about $800 the first year. That does not include the motivational books, materials, and conferences distributors are strongly encouraged to attend to “build their business” where they have to pay for the conference, as well as food, travel, and hotel. My friend has gone to six of these in the past year, spending thousands of dollars. Since this MLM attracts a lot of stay at home parents, you also have to factor in the cost of childcare. Economists would also factor in the “opportunity cost”–what you could earn doing something else (even a minimum wage job). As you can see from the income disclosure chart, the probability of her earning it back is vanishingly small.

            The problem is people join and then quit at a high rate (if they didn’t, the percentage of people in the different brackets would change more from year to year, it doesn’t–there are old income disclosures available online). Your success in moving up is not just dependent on your own hard work, but that everyone else is equally committed as you and obviously from the numbers, they aren’t. This means you must constantly replace people leaving in addition to adding new people. Once you get through your warm market, that’s pretty hard to do apparently. It’s like building a sand castle at the wave’s edge.

            When I pointed this out to her, she stopped speaking to me. Other friends she’s approached now avoid her because they don’t want to get yet another sales pitch instead of just a friendly phone call with no agenda.

            • Chuck October 26, 2011 at 9:19 am #

              You people are so ignorant it is unbelievable. You do not know a damn thing about SOC or net work marketing. Sure, there are people that make very little. But it is their choice as to how hard they work this business. What you don’t understand is that there are also a lot of people who are making a decent residual income, and that continues to grow. You also don’t mention the bonus money that people make, and that can be very rewarding.

              Of course, you put out money to become a distributor. Have you ever seen the software that is used for SOC? Probably not. It is elaborate, and has the bells and whistles to go with it. Have you ever seen the headquarters with the up to date printing machines? And, all of the other equipment to put out a top notch product? Probably not. You talk about all of the dollars that a person has to spend. You may not be aware that you don’t need to put out money for everything. You also may not be aware that anybody can surpass anybody else in this business. Just because I sign up someone doesn’t mean that I will always be ahead of them. And, since you are so negative about this business, and how everyone is getting ripped off, to might want to tell that to the thousands that are doing well in this business. They would like to know how you determined that.

              If this business was a pyramid, they would be out of business. If it were a scam, they would be out of business. If it were illegal, it would be out of business. SOC has been in business for 7 years, and growing each year. There are strict guidelines that they need to follow. If they don’t, they are out of business.

              And, by the way, I would call any business…corporation or small business, a MLM. The people at the top make the most, and those in below will make less. At least with a MLM, everyone has an opportunity to make the amount of money that they desire. You don’t always have that opportunity in a regular business.

              • Betty R October 26, 2011 at 9:33 pm #

                I know, it sucks right? Reality can be a real bummer. Send Out Cards is a legal company, the Federal Tade Commission ruled MLMs that sell a product to consumers are legal in their 1979 ruling regarding Amway. Just because something is legal does not mean its ethical. Adultery is legal (or blue laws regarding it are not enforced) but I think most would agree it’s unethical under most circumstances.

                Send Out Cards in their opportunity video and other promotional materials say their business opportunity is a way to “financial freedom” all while working at home, being your own boss, and setting your own hours (who wouldn’t want that?), or a way to earn money to help send your kid to college, help pay down debts etc. Lately they have toned down the implications of potential great weath (showing people in private jets, with huge homes, “having the lifestyle of our dreams!”) and instead are focusing on the “financial freedom” idea. What does financial freedom mean? Different things to different people, but I would think it would mean to many a way to earn a middle class income (say 40,000 a year) while working full time, at home.

                However, a look at their income disclosure shows in reality, 45% of distributors earn nothing, and of those that do, 99.97% earn less than $33,000 a year before taxes and expenses, and 99.71% earn less than $5,000 per year average before taxes and expenses. Does that sound like financial freedom to you? Would you advertise a business with a success rate like that as a good investment? The odds are more in your favor if you pick any gambling game in Vegas. Would you encourage your friends and family to invest in gambling? Because that’s what Send Out Cards asks their distributors to do. They ask you to think of everyone you know and present the opportunity (or try to get them as a customer first, then convert them to distributor). These are the numbers Send Out Cards has provided (well, basically forced to provide to stay out of trouble with the FTC). I’m sorry reality is negative, but it is what it is.

                Your success doesn’t depend just on how hard YOU work–to advance in level, the people you recruit must also advance. To reach Executive level (33,000 average per year) you must personally sign up and train a certain number of people and of those, 5 must become senior managers–so your advancement is actually dependent on others, not just your own work. Since so many people drop out because they are not making money (even using the estimates from the income disclosure, the soonest you would make more than 5,000 per year Is 1.5 years). And residual income? Works great in theory, but if 60-70% of the people you are earning those residuals off of drop out each year and you are unable to replace them, that’s a quickly shrinking pool. The higher the drop out rate, the faster the pool shrinks.

                Kody Bateman (founder of Send Out Cards) stated a bit ago in an interview that Send Out Cards had 30,000 active distributors (I imagine that number is higher now) but, let’s use it as an example. Using the percentages from the income disclosure, that means 90 people out of that 30,000 are making more than $33,000 average gross before taxes and expenses a year. That means no, “thousands” are not doing well in Send Out Cards, unless you define “well” as being able to say, pay for a nice dinner out after you pay taxes and expenses (and some might). If you mean thousands are doing well out of ALL MLMs, then yep, I’d agree with that. Thousands out of millions and millions. It’s the percentage you see that determines probability. People win the lottery too, but the odds for powerball are 300 million to 1. Just because someone wins says nothing about the probability YOU will win, you can only figure that out if you know how many won versus how many bought tickets.

                I could care less about the structure of a company, I only care about the realistic chances of earning money. If Send Out Cards advertised themselves as “hey, you could earn a few hundred bucks a year with our opportunity” that would be more accurate, but then, I don’t think they would sign up quite so many people.

                • Betty R October 27, 2011 at 8:58 am #

                  To illustrate how rank advancement in Send Out Cards is dependent on other people and not just one individual’s bootstraps and sacrifice:

                  Let’s say you want to be a Send Out Cards executive pulling in an average of $33,000 per year before taxes and expenses. To get there you need to personally recruit and train a total of 9 people and need to have 5 of those 9 advance to senior manager. From the income disclosure, Only 1.96% of all people who join Send Out Cards as distributors ever reach that level. So, out of 100 people you recruit, on average, 2 will become senior managers. That means you will need to recruit an average of 250 people to get your 5 senior managers to advance to executive, so how many people does the average person manage to recruit? The income disclosure gives us an idea.

                  Also from the income disclosure–since 45% of people never make anything, we know that 45% of people who join as distributors never recruit anyone. Of those that do, we know (from Send Out Cards compensation plan details) that to be a manager, you need to personally recruit 3 people. Only 2.58% of all distributors ever manage to make manager, meaning only that percentage manage to recruit 3 people. Senior managers need to personally recruit 6 distributors, and only 1.96% of people ever manage to do that. Let’s assume the average active distributor manages to recruit 1 person. So here’s how we figure out the average number of people recruited for all distributors that join.

                  45% recruit 0
                  50.46 (the distributors) recruit 1
                  2.58 (managers) recruit 3
                  1.96 (senior managers) recruit 6

                  That means the average distributor manages to personally recruit 2.5 people. And we know that there is a high turnover rate–other MLMs for which there is data show a drop out rate ranging from 50-90% per year. People leaving must be replaced if you want to keep any residual income, so on the conservative side, you will need to replace everyone in your group every two years just to maintain the same level of residual income. There will never be a time you can stop recruiting and just relax on the beach enjoying a steady stream of money with no effort.

                  You may be the biggest go getter on the planet and work your ass to the bone but the question is, is everyone else?

                  • Betty R October 27, 2011 at 11:47 am #

                    Actually the 30,000 active distributors for Send Out Cards looks about right even now as SOC lists 13 people/companies as current senior executives or eagles (the top 2 brackets). The 2010 income disclosure says those two groups combined are .04% of active distributors. 30,000 x .0004 = 12 which is pretty close. So 13 people are making more than the next lowest bracket–the executives, which means we can know with some certainty (assuming the disclosure is accurate of course) that 13 is the number of people in Send Out Cards making more than the average yearly income of $33,000 that executives make–I incorrectly stated earlier that number was 90. 90 is the number out of 30,000 making more than senior managers at 5,000 per year (the senior executives, executives, and eagles combined). Send Out Cards was founded in 2004. Their promotional materials say distributors who work hard could be successful in 2-5 years.

                    • Keith October 27, 2011 at 11:55 am #

                      Betty: You are truly awesome! Thank you :-)

            • Eva January 6, 2012 at 7:37 am #

              Hi, I joined SendOut Cards and paid the $400 distributorship, etc. I then attended a seminar because I wanted some tips on how to actually make the cards, took my husband with me. No one talked about the cards, just about the compensation plan (which is sooo confusing) and how to get distributors, so we left.

              Of course it didn’t take me long to realize that it wasn’t for me because trying to get people to join was just not how I wanted to spend my life. BUT I did want to learn how to make beautiful cards. I ended up teaching myself and they are beautiful, so for this reason I do love SendOut Cards. Now if the company would make all their websites more user friendly then I could probably send my friends to make their own cards. As it stands now no one will do it because they feel it’s too complicated BUT they love the cards I have made.

              My friends who have businesses use the cards but even here I have to walk them through it and it’s sooo time consuming. You do get paid retail for this but I haven’t made any money and even if I do it’s not the reason I use SendOut Cards because my cards are beautiful. Now if I could just make some money, lol! Check out my cards I made for my friends and family and business associates: http://www.thesweetestgifts.net/

              Best regards,
              Eva

              p.s. I don’t pay $31 a month and I won’t pay $59 a year just to stay in business. So far I haven’t figured out how this is hurting me but I do continue to make cards.

          • Jim November 1, 2011 at 9:35 am #

            It’s the front-end load that successful distributors are selling – the price of becoming a distributor. They don’t care if you ever buy another thing. They just want your list of friends so they can do it again and again and again.

            • Betty R November 3, 2011 at 8:50 am #

              Well if you get between $140-300 for everyone you recruit to distributor versus $35 per year for each customer that signs up for their monthly plan at 9.80 a month (provided they actually use it for a whole year), which one would you focus on? The distributors that want to advance sure care though if you keep buying as they can’t advance unless the people under them do too. And the company, they sure want you to keep buying because they know their real customers are their own distributors, spurred on by their dreams of being rich–they will buy and buy chasing this dream in vain.

              The company, like most MLMs, sells its product mostly to its own distributors who must purchase $31 a month of their stuff to “qualify” for their paychecks. Now they just introduced a “photo store” and have told all distributors they need to have at least one of each of their new products to show potential recruits/customers at a total of about $160 for all. Distributors need to “fill your house with these products!” There are about 30,000 current active distributors so that’s 30,000 x $160 = 4.8 million dollars to the company and their highest distributors who are the ones who benefit from the avalanche of lower tiers purchasing this stuff (assuming all 30,000 do this of course). Not too shabby–for the company’s coffers that is.

              Send Out Cards will most likely continue to expand the products they offer–as well as their personal development seminars (which they charge for of course)–with big hype at each launch and telling their distrubutors they MUST have these products and seminars if they want to be successful! Classic MLM. And amazingly, totally legal.

          • Randy January 26, 2013 at 2:39 pm #

            Keith, to be frank – you sound ignorant. Sorry to say, but it’s true.

            You’re so close minded that you can hear what people are saying, but not really LISTENING.

            …And now this discussion has gone so far down the path, that your ego will probably keep you from admitting the truth that your generalizing sounds so ignorant.

            I’m pretty sure that you’ve already had thoughts to yourself that you have been proven wrong, but your ego kept you holding your stance on the argument so that you don’t look like a simpleton.

            • Keith January 26, 2013 at 4:30 pm #

              Randy: I sound ignorant, and you’re sorry to say it? I don’t think you’re sorry at all. In fact, I think you were itching to say it so badly that you did say it. And, I’m not LISTENING? Did that really need to be in caps? You have made a comment here that says absolutely nothing. You’ve put together a few sentences that call me ignorant, egotistical and closed minded, but you haven’t said how. You said nothing. How have I been proven wrong? Add something to the facts or do some actual proving because otherwise it’s just you who looks a little dumb, not me.

        • Robbie Hindman November 16, 2011 at 8:07 pm #

          I have been a user of Send Out Cards for the past year and a half and I just find their system absolutely a must have system. I am only a customer and did not even know that Send Out Cards had a Network Marketing System or MLM. The friends who has recommended it to me is Phil and Gina Sullins of Newport Arkansas and I just spoke to them yesterday and they did tell me they have signed up as distributors but have joined it under their corporate name. They are making real good money. Phil Sullins, Gina Sullins, and I belong to the local swingers group club and Gina Sullins is one of the main people who sends out invitations to conventions and they utilize it through Send Out Cards. It is a cool system but I am seriously considering becoming a distributor but am hesitant with the MLM part of the business. From my understanding, Phil Sullin is making over six figures with Send Out Cards and the company is extremely solid. I will keep you folks in tuned.

          Robbie D. Hindman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Wayland Realty
          Realtor of the Year 2010 for Jackson County, Arkansas
          Professional Realtor of the Month for Independence County, Arkansas
          Professional Race Car Driver
          Senior Board Member of Swing Town USA
          Director of the Real Estate Institute of Arkansas
          Part time Deputy Sheriff

      • Shelley February 4, 2012 at 8:17 pm #

        Great comments. Very well said. You have a great understanding as to how the MLM system works. People that don’t work the system will not receive the business.

      • Aileen February 24, 2012 at 9:46 am #

        Leslie, how do you explain what sendoutcards has published about their own company and earnings potential? The company itself shows that little money is being made by distributors. I understand that in order to make money you have to sign up distributors. But still they are not making a lot of money.

      • Doug March 12, 2012 at 10:30 am #

        Leslie, It’s not that you failed, but that you more than likely quit. If you are looking for info, help, a team then please check us out at http://www.yourmastercoach.com. Please watch this video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FclI8hGQgb4&feature=related

        • Keith March 12, 2012 at 10:36 am #

          Doug: I see you’re giving self help advice. Now, are you certain that you are sufficiently successful to warrant someone listening to your admonition? After all, you may not have quit, but does that mean you’re successful?

      • Terri April 6, 2012 at 5:52 am #

        Leslie, thank you for clarifying, and Almighty Dad, I just met an Eagle last night, and many executives, just in my town alone, so get your facts straight!

        • Betty R April 20, 2012 at 3:11 pm #

          WOW you MET an Eagle? I’ve met Bill Gates, does that mean I’m going to be as wealthy as he is? They drag those 4 Eagles (4 out of now over 140,000 people who have ever joined SendOutCards–gee, I like your chances!) across the country to every event they can to impress the rubes.

          Obviously, it works.

      • Nicky April 30, 2012 at 6:14 pm #

        LOL network marketing is like calling welfare assisted living. You are full of it. It is clearly a money sucker and those numbers are irrefutable so try to argue you them. I dare. Former distributor. Promised compensation for the more expensive packages by SendOutCards. Never received this “compensation”…. Fancy that. Do as you wish everyone, it’s only, or was only 70 bucks. But think about this. Everyone pays 70 bucks. WHERES IT GO…? Oh right it goes into sendoutcards pocket, I forgot..

      • Keith (a differant one and smarter too) May 31, 2012 at 4:38 pm #

        Leslie, I fully agree with you. too am a satisfied customer of SOC and have been for about 5 years. It is easier, cheaper and more convenient to use SOC. I have many customers with lots of birthdays, anniversaries, and special events I like to recognize. Go ing to the store is not the answer when you can get quality and use your time saved more productively. Besides, all the big insurance companies are pyramids legal or not.

      • Lis January 4, 2013 at 4:01 pm #

        I totally agree with you too Leslie, cheap, convenient and fun to design your own cards.

        I would just like to say that the products of SOC are really good and cheap too. It is like any thing in life, if you want it bad enough you will work for it. No different to any other job, don’t do the job, you get the arse.

    • Wayne September 14, 2011 at 9:10 pm #

      While I take the time to present to you the facts about Send Out Cards and how to determine if it is a Pyramid Scheme Scam or a good business opportunity I am also going to do a little bit more for you. I am going to share industry relevant information that will help you succeed in finding the best opportunity for you and making the best out of it.

      So you have probably checked out the company website and have an idea about what the company is about but sometimes, especially if you are new to the industry, company lingo and compensation charts can be a little confusing.

      There are 3 things I have found that can right off the bat break any scam worries and be strong indicators as to the potential success this business opportunity can offer you. These 3 factors are; a sellable product, a viable compensation plan and a sturdy foundation or solid management.

      So first let’s take a look at what I think about the product.
      Honestly, I think it makes a lot of sense. I have read numerous positive reviews on the service and can see how appealing to the personal greeting card sender and the small business striving to improve customer and employee relations this can be.

      Why not save hours on my Christmas card list and even better for businesses that send holiday cards to customers of reminder stamps for appointments. Depending on the business I am sure the time saved in not having to worry about picking up the cards, filling them in by hand and sending them out will pay for the service itself.

      I think the concept behind the product is great but I do have a few concerns about Send Out Cards’ compensation plan for the average person and this is something that is normally not stressed enough when you are presented with these types of opportunities.

      Sure, there are plenty of ways to make bonuses and once you rise higher in the ranks the income becomes very lucrative. But as I see it, and I have seen a lot of compensation plans and companies, the bottom level distributor won’t be making much money until they upgrade to a manager. However, You have to have 12 distributors under you and to have personally trained two of them to achieve this.

      I remember when I joined my first MLM. I had a hard time bringing in 12 customers and took a lot of trial and error and good luck to get good training from friends in the industry to gain 12 distributors. This really is not easy if you do not know what you are doing. Now that I do know what I am doing I wouldn’t consider it such a task but I haven’t forgot where I came from so I can imagine where you might be at.

      The compensation plan is a good one but if you aren’t prepared for the work and knowledge it takes to build your own home based business this might end up taking you longer than you expected. This would not mean Send Out Cards has scammed you but that you didn’t take your due diligence in training yourself in the methods that are making home based business millionaires.

      Now probably my favorite aspect about send out cards is that the service is internet based. Being mainly an internet marketer this appeals to me as well as many others if you have been awake the past 10 years. Public schools are applying internet classes, you-tube has more viewers than fox… you get the picture, people are using the internet more and more for their day to day things.

      This makes it very easy to market this opportunity over the internet and has opened the company to a lot of growth and even more potential growth. Watching Send Out Cards for some time I have seen the website improve drastically, improved customer service as well as a great growth of options to choose from your greeting card data base and customization effects. It appears the management has been handling the growth effectively though I did read more complaints than I would have like about cards not being delivered, this seemed to be limited to Australian users.

      It is certain Send Out Cards is not a scam. But looking at their compensation plan and business model I wouldn’t recommend anyone without experience in running a business jumping in full force. To truly succeed in send out cards you would need to be trained in the trending methods to managing a business. You can make good money offering a good service with send out cards if you know what you are doing. So don’t be discouraged be motivated and take you financial life back into your own hands!

      I can help just let me know how you wish for me to assisit you.

      Wayne

    • Christine December 5, 2011 at 6:04 am #

      This is not a scam. Just like life, you only get out of it what you put into it!

    • Jim S December 19, 2011 at 7:56 pm #

      I bought the service and love it. It costs about 41 cents per card, plus postage. I think there are about 10,000 cards to choose from and most of them are good to very good. (Some of them are pretty lame, but the same goes for Hallmark.)

      I like the fact the cards are sent in my own hand writing and I can use personal pictures for the cover or inside the cards. Pretty cool

    • Lori January 3, 2012 at 10:56 am #

      All companies are pyramid schemes in my eyes but the difference is you will never get past the President of most Corporations.

      President
      Vice President
      and so on…

      Again… It’s all what you put into whatever you do!

      • Keith January 3, 2012 at 11:56 am #

        Lori: Please investigate what a pyramid scheme is and how it operates. Compare that with what MLM’s do (legalized pyramids) and you will see how there is a very clear, distinct difference.

    • Joell January 31, 2012 at 7:28 am #

      Keith,

      As a hard-working SendOutCards Distributor, I object to your slanted and damaging comments regarding SendOutCards. For anyone here who would like a quick education on legitimate MLM companies vs. illegal pyramid schemes, here is an informative link:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DUWmgsgMkPU&feature=related

      SendOutCards is an incredible product offered at a very low cost. This relatively young company is going through an explosive growth phase. As of January 5th, 2012 there was a positive revamp of the system with many changes to deal with this growth.

      Prior to these changes, many “distributors” who signed up with the company were business owners who signed up as distributors along with the wholesale option in order to secure the lowest prices to use the cards and the system. I know this because my husband and I were business owners who signed up for this purpose. We loved the product and had the need to send numerous Thank You cards along with other types of cards to our clients. At that time, becoming distributors made the most sense. Many business owners are distributors who do not actively pursue gathering a team of distributors.

      That being said, we personally know a number of people who have either supplemental income streams or have worked hard to make SendOutCards a full-time profitable business for themselves. My husband and I have decided to fully pursue SendOutCards as a business because of the rewards (both financially and personally). The reason people don’t make money is that they do not follow up. IT IS WORK. The only way to succeed is to actually work the business. If that makes it scammy in some way, then ALL business is scammy. My policy at this time is to only accept new distributors if they make a verbal contract with me to work the business and I let them know that the only way to make money is to WORK.

      I am proud to send quality cards every day to people who need a moral boost. This is the attitude that the company was built on. We make a living through giving.

      You really need to get a better education regarding legitimate MLM companies. You are doing harm here to folks who are trying to operate their own home based businesses.

      • Eric April 18, 2012 at 8:51 pm #

        Mystery solved! The idiot with the very high IQ, Joell, thought that Keith didn’t publish his long and boring post with his website on it because it was waaaaaay down the list for some reason. Double checkmate!

    • Dorita Tolbert Portraits February 14, 2012 at 1:23 pm #

      There is no truth in this add other than the fact that a percentage of the distributors don’t make money and here is why. The key to success is DUPLICATION, DEDICATION, and CONSISTANCY. With out those three very important things NOTHING will work whether it’s an MLM or a brand new company you are building from the ground up!! I have been a Network Markerter aka MLMgal for 10 yrs and there is absolutely NO difference between a Network Marketer and Mult-Level-Marketing aka MLM. I am a customer of SendOutCards and I am also a Distributor… and I absolutely LOVE SENDOUTCARDS! I enjoy the concept of the cards, the gifts and being able to create and send anytime and anywhere more than making the money however making money is a wonderful PERK. So please folks Do Not be fooled by this add whatsoever! It is definitely a farce.

      There are such things as get RICH schemes but they are by no means any more or less than any other Network Marketing Business aka MLM Business. The simple truth is the get rich schemes are exactly that, SCHEMES to get your money. You need to educate yourself on the MLM in question and research the history of the company. It is an investment and everyone should be aware of what they are investing in and how it works..

      Best Regards,
      Dorita Tolbert Portraits

      • Keith February 14, 2012 at 1:33 pm #

        Yes, Dorita, I can tell from your liberal use of caps lock and rhetorical chants that you are, indeed, an MLM person.

      • Betty R February 14, 2012 at 4:25 pm #

        Really Dorita, if it’s SO EASY to make money in MLM, why aren’t you walking the beaches of the world and listed as a top MLM producer after the 10 years you’ve been in MLM (or network marketing, same crap, more palatable name)? Instead you are listed as the editor of a magazine that has yet to put out a single issue but is attempting to hire interns willing to work unpaid for a year before a possible job offer (good luck with that). You may be willing to work for 10 years for no money, but normal, rational people aren’t.

      • Betty R February 14, 2012 at 4:55 pm #

        I should add, being willing to work for many years with little to show for it except a brainwashed positive attitude about how wonderful MLM is does make you perfect for Send Out Cards!

    • Jeff Turner April 20, 2012 at 4:12 pm #

      Have you even tried SendoutCards? There is no membership fee, or ‘buy in’. I’m not in any MLM company, never have been and never will be. I’m in real estate, and this service keeps track of all my clients so I can keep in touch with them on a pay as you go basis. WHERE IS THE PYRAMID in that!!!

      This chat is ridiculous… if you don’t believe me…then see for your self… http://www.sendoutcards.com/give2day

  2. J. Cruikshank November 18, 2009 at 12:13 pm #

    Just another re-wrapped pyramid. Will people ever learn? I doubt it.

    • Keith November 18, 2009 at 2:34 pm #

      Mom, people will never learn. People simply don’t understand the nature of what a ponzi scheme is, and if they do and they still engage in them, they are seriously dishonest people.

  3. Debbie November 18, 2009 at 2:16 pm #

    Of course. Just like spending money to become a realtor is a scam. So many realtors never sell a house and don’t make any money. Must be a scam.
    A job where you don’t work and don’t make any money. Definitely a scam.
    Only those opportunities where you’re guaranteed to get rich WITHOUT working – those are the real deals.
    Of course.

    • Keith November 18, 2009 at 2:31 pm #

      Debbie, maybe you don’t know the nature of what a pyramid scheme is if you think it’s just a matter of not making money. It is nothing like selling real estate; there is value in real estate; it can be resold at a profit to another single buyer in the future. Pyramid schemes are inherently dishonest because they feed on expanding bases, which ALWAYS ends up screwing whoever gets in too late, to support themselves. Maybe you ought to look up what a pyramid scheme is before you equate it to trying to make an honest dollar.

      • Karen August 11, 2011 at 1:17 pm #

        you are obviously the one who doesn’t understand what a pyramid scheme is. while all businesses are in the shape of a pyramid, a pyramid scheme is one where there is no service or product. I have known many who have made a good living sharing good products and services in network marketing and have done so for many years. they are are all honest good people.

      • Wayne September 14, 2011 at 9:01 pm #

        Pyramid … what is a pyramid? In building it is the strongest form of a structure one can build. Why do so many people use the term pyramid when discussing the term net work marketing, MLM, and direct sales? Did you know that everyone in the USA that works and pays taxes are involved in a pyramid? I am in the US Army and it is a pyramid. For example…as an enlisted soldier does all the heavy lifting and works while all the leadership reaps the rewards from the enlisted soldiers that completed the work. Here is the kicker…if that enlisted soldier works hard and does what he or she is told and has the drive to get promoted then that soldier is promoted. The poor enlisted soldier that did not do the same things as the soldier getting promoted must think the US Army is a SCAM.

        Everything we do in life for money is a scam. I make more if I am a better at sales than the other person. I have yet to make a lot of money with a net work marketing company…the reason is I am the poor enlisted soldier that did not listen and do what I was to do to achieve my goals I wanted to achieve.

        I have made hundreds of thousands selling services to real estate agents, insurance agents, and even car dealerships. Oh by the way one of my services I sell is Send Out Cards. This vehicle for my services business is a gold mind I wish that everyone would think this is the biggest scam of all time so I would not have any competition.

        So now that I have wrote these words… I see that this blog or web site will gain even more hits since I have used several high quality key words.

        Look for my next business … Catch The Wave Power Boats

  4. Debbie November 18, 2009 at 2:47 pm #

    Just like any business, you have to get customers to be viable (=make money). If you don’t get customers, your business fails. Send Out Cards is no different. You don’t HAVE to bring in distributors to make money. Yes, if you bring in distributors, you make more, much like McDonald’s going in to franchise mode to expand it’s sales base. But you can also make money (including residuals) by gaining customers, without a single new distributor.

    Before starting any business, you need to evaluate the market to determine if you can generate new business, customers, clients who want the products/services you provide. If the market is too competitive, it might be too hard for you to generate enough business, so you end up folding (i.e. making no money).

    Send Out Cards is no different. When looking at it, you evaluate if there’s a market for the product and determine if you have the ability to market it effectively in order to make money. 85% of new businesses fail, most of which would require MUCH more of an investment than Send Out Cards. Some people succeed; others don’t. That fact, which is true for ANY new business, does not make it a scam.

    A business providing a legitimate service or product (which is used by customers on an ongoing basis) is not in any way, shape, or form a ponzi scheme. The business is fed by service usage at all levels, not just the bottom.

    • Keith November 18, 2009 at 3:32 pm #

      Debbie. Look at the numbers (which i’ve been so good as to provide here). Almost nobody makes any money at Sendoutcards. Look at the chart and notice that, as pathetic as the numbers are, they are even more sad because the quoted return is GROSS — not net (real business couldn’t even sustain themselves on what you consider success). You’re being patently dishonest by saying “some people succeed; Others don’t”. Look at the data for god’s sake! Nobody makes it. And you still seem unwilling to admit that this is a pyramid scheme. I’m guessing you must be a sendoucards member or a participant in another similar scam. Dennis stated very clearly in the article that the mere act of sending cards through the service is indeed a product — it’s not a product anybody really wants, but it’s a product. The problem with pyramid schemes is that the product is always an afterthought; it’s merely a vehicle for the pyramid. It isn’t as bad as someone telling their friend to send them 5 dollars and then getting the friends of their friends to send another 5 dollars — that’s how they get away with not being shut down. But the underlying principal of the business is absolutely a MLM scheme. Absolutely.

      • Chris August 25, 2011 at 2:45 pm #

        Keith, your ignorance is staggering. Just cause the level of income within a company falls short of your grandiose expectations does not merit them to be either a scam or a pyramid scheme.

        If you’re a stand up guy, you would have the courage not to delete my comment to oblivion

        • Keith August 25, 2011 at 2:49 pm #

          Chris: Have you read even a fraction of the comments on this post? Obviously I post almost all the comments I get. A silly one like yours is hardly spectacular. And, the reason I (and Dennis) think it’s a scam has nothing to do with grandiose expectations. Pick any MLM. They all have the same flaw.

      • Lissa September 13, 2011 at 8:13 am #

        I do not understand how you can say nobody wants the product. I am not a distributor at Send Out Cards. I did not pay much to become a distributor. I have not persued the distributorship, however, I do use the program almost daily to send cards to customers, friends and family. I use it to send my yearly Christmas cards thst I can personalize any way I want to. I can send little gifts with those cards also.

        I cannot tell you how much I appreciate the convenience and the savings of using this program. I have sent upwards of 300 – 500 cards for the Holidays and have save quite a bit of money, let alone time sending them this way. Having cards printed, taking the time to stuff and stamp them, then send them. Very time consuming and impersonal. I can personalize cards for those customers with whom I had a stronger and more personal repore. They apreciate that I remember they had twins or were purchasing a new home or getting married.

        Saving money, personalization, and not having to stuff my cards and stamp them which is very time consumng is the best reason for using this service.

        • Keith September 13, 2011 at 10:00 am #

          Lissa: Sorry, I should have been more specific. I meant that most people don’t have a problem writing holiday cards by hand and buying the cards in bulk. There are a select few who could use a more voluminous solution, but I think those cases are rare.

          • Bryon October 1, 2011 at 11:20 pm #

            I agree with Lissa here, Keith. I’m a REALTOR and I find Send Out Cards an invaluable tool for my business. The people who have received the cards and gifts I have sent them have loved them. I am not a distributor either, however, based on the amount of clients and business associates that have received cards from me or that I have told the product about and now want that product or have actually begun using the product themselves, I have seriously considered becoming a distributor. I don’t think that it’s rare at all to find people who like or would use this service on a regular basis. The simple fact alone that it is completely web-based is a draw…let alone the fact that the products and cards are high quality. Have you tried it or you speaking specifically from an outside point of view?

    • Ron August 25, 2011 at 1:45 am #

      Keith if you cant remember if you read her whole letter then you owe her an apology, there is a reason she did not share the company she worked for, it is against Federal law to share the company she works for and the makes. She can tell What company she works for or how much she makes but not both. There is an excellent site set up by our government to explain what to watch for just Google (pyramid marketing, MLM,Ponzi Scemes) and grab the first .gov site you see, it explains what makes it legal or illegal..
      I would rather my friend tell me what they like, then by from a company that puts 2200 mg of salt into a toddler meal or another that uses a clown to convince i me I want their breakfast meal with over 2000 mg of salt a well known fact that the more salt we eat the more sugar we grave. That is what fast food chains have known fore years.
      The real truth the internet wasn’t intended for porn or scams but the both exist it is our jobs to search for truth and do our homework and protect ourselves there are great MLM companies and there are ones that are created for a quick profit take the time to read the fine print. Bye the way take the time next time you stop to eat fast food turn over that pretty paper place mat it will tell you some things about what your putting in your body. I used to sell Pampered Chef Leslie O I stopped because I felt out of place in a room full of ladies making crude jokes (But the have great products) Please don’t forget Avon my wife did very well and was the top in sales in our state, The problem was she like the product so well we spent a bundle too. But she still made great money.
      Leslie O, if Keith isn’t man enough to apologize for reading only half your letter the first time I will and I read it twice and you made excellent points about MLM. this should be a teaching site and caution what to watch for like time in operation, number of levels deep you can go. How many customers you have to personally Spencer. The latest trick I wrote a book on MLM, only to find out it is an E-book and it takes nothing to get an E-book published. You just have to sort through the trash to find a reputable company. I have been invited to look at this program and i found this site, my thoughts are much like yours I may use the site for personal use and for mailing to my customers, but I a not sure it is a good business to be in. Keith you can feel free to email me, but I thought your response to Leslie O was way out of line. Ron

      • Keith August 25, 2011 at 9:15 am #

        Ron: I’m sorry, but what you say is ridiculous. I’m not required to read every comment, and I owe nobody an apology. I skim most comments, and I stop to thoroughly read the ones that say something new or interesting. Do you have any idea how many comments I read every day? Probably not. Secondly, how in the hell is it illegal to tell me who you work for and how much you make? That one made me laugh.

        • Jon October 10, 2011 at 11:13 am #

          Keith, if you are not required to read a comment, then you really shouldn’t be replying to it unless you truly understand what’s being said. Sadly you’re making yourself look pretty foolish in your replies.

          As to the topic itself, I’ve found SendOut Cards to be a very useful and helpful tool for my business. There are certainly some crummy MLM deals out there and it behooves the consumer to watch what they are getting into. Ultimately it lies in whether or not the product is worthwhile. Clearly you don’t think so. But I can say for myself, and for several others who have responded here, that it is quite worthwhile, at least in certain circles. Certainly in terms of a business tool, its helpful in allowing us a simple and professional means of staying in contact with our customers. Sure we could have a receptionist or some other staff member do that by hand, but I can honestly say that doing it that way is considerably more expensive. I’m happy with the product SendOut Cards provides.

          • Keith October 10, 2011 at 2:32 pm #

            Jon: I quit paying attention when they all started saying the same thing. Read the thousands of words I’ve replied with and you will clearly see that there is nothing that hasn’t already been said. You may think that I’m the one who looks foolish, but I think it would be even more foolish to keep repeating myself senselessly. You don’t believe it, but I actually do know what’s being said — without reading everything. For instance, if it starts with something like “Wow, I can’t believe how ignorant you are… ” I just stop reading right there. Blah blah blah.

  5. Debbie November 18, 2009 at 4:15 pm #

    Keith, I think we’ll have to agree to disagree.

    Consider blogging. How may get rich off of i? I would venture to say the numbers are even more dismal than Send Out Cards. That doesn’t make it a scam. A blogger who finds a profitable niche, puts in hard work, learns how to do the business, etc., etc, can potentially make a good living. I would guess that 99%+ do not put in that kind of work and therefore don’t make money. You might argue that many “bloggers” are recreational and therefore don’t expect to make money. The same goes for Send Out Cards (or most any other business) – if you work hard, learn how to do the business, etc., etc, you can potentially make a good living from selling a legitimate product that people want/need. Some people actually sign up as a distributor without any intention to make a lot of money – they do it for the possibility of making a little extra while they’re promoting their main business. MOST Send Out Cards “distributors” are using the service to promote other businesses.

    “it’s not a product anybody really wants, but it’s a product” – Definitely a matter of opinion. Personally, I don’t believe pornography is anything that anyone really wants, but I’d, quite obviously, be wrong. Greeting cards may not be a product that YOU would want, but there are definitely other people and businesses who get great benefit from it – either for personal use or business use.

    The MLM method of distribution is just that – a method of distribution, advertising, and marketing. If you consider the product overpriced, there are plenty of “over-priced” products on the market which support viable businesses because they fill a need. The method of distribution doesn’t make it a scam, any more than an expensive advertising campaign is a scam (which may or may not make money for a company).

    It is NOT a method to get rich quick.
    It does NOT sell itself.
    It IS a legitimate way to potentially make money as a home-based business through honest hard work of selling, promotion, etc. – just like any other commission-based sales job.
    Just like in any profession/industry/company, there are shiesters – hopefully you’ll recognize and avoid them wherever you find them.

    • Keith November 18, 2009 at 6:48 pm #

      Nope, you’re wrong. You keep trying to equate a pyramid scheme with other more legitimate businesses. That’s where you keep getting hung up. I never said a business that didn’t make money was a scam. I said MLM businesses, if they make money or not (which they don’t), are scams because of the business model. It’s cut and dry, black and white; the MLM distribution method focuses not on the service or product but the pyramid itself to sustain growth. That is dishonest because it is destined to burn out and leave whoever is last holding the bag. This is not a agree to disagree sort of situation, Debbie. It can only come to that point if you first acknowledge the definition of a MLM scheme. Right now, it’s you plugging your ears and going “la lalalaalalaala”. You would see how it is not like other businesses if you knew the inevitability of failure and you could see the inevitability that someone else will get hurt from the system itself.

      • Albin August 16, 2011 at 1:28 pm #

        Wow. Keith, you are pretty bitter about something. I’m not in Send Out Cards or any other MLM business. But you sound pretty ignorant of the business model itself and what is required to be successful in this or any other business. It is committment and hard work that will make you successful. I’ve seen the numbers you’ve posted showing average incomes from S.O.C. It includes inactive individuals. How could you use that as part of the argument? Did you get burned by them or something else? You just sound way too jaded to be an innocent bystander in your witch hunt of the Network Marketing business model.
        You like others sound foolish always adding the word “scheme” after it as well. It just goes to show that you don’t exactly understand what you’re talking about.

        • Keith August 16, 2011 at 2:35 pm #

          Albin: Did you notice how long ago this article was written (not by me)? Dennis used numbers that were current at that time. I don’t really get how it is you think I’m bitter about anything. People fall into the MLM trap all the time, and it’s almost always a financial disaster. If I thought people needed to hear it, I’d also warn them against wrestling bears and riding sharks. Fortunately, people aren’t that dumb — they’re just moderately dumb or otherwise easily deceived. For the 100th time, I have never participated in any sort of MLM scheme. I’m just not that naive. Perhaps after you fail enough, you’ll see how silly you’re being now.

        • Tsu November 13, 2011 at 6:16 am #

          Actually Kieth has it pretty spot on. How do I know. I’ve been a distributor in a company with the same set up. I figured out after, sadly, twelve months that by the time I’d paid for the materials needed to run the business in the way we were trained to run it, there was nothing left over from my so called profit margin. The ‘profit’ quoted to distributors was the difference between the customer and distributor prices for the product … pity they didn’t advertise the fact that you’d then take out of this a pile of other costs meaning that in reality profit was $0.00. Talk about a misleading experience. The only way you make real income, and sorry but the incomes quoted in the publicity material for the first level or two is not a real income, it is top up money at best, is if you recruit others and get them to do the same and so on. I probably wouldn’t have minded if that was clearer when we signed on. It wasn’t even as if I sat on my butt and twiddled my fingers for twelve months. I worked damn hard.

      • Jeremy October 17, 2011 at 8:56 am #

        My question to you is what business on this planet isn’t shaped like a pyramid. I’m not in any MLM or direct sales companies but understand the business model. My dad was a part of a company with this type of system. He rarely recruited people unless they were interested in working with him. And my dad made about $1,000,000 over about 10 years of working with the company. Most people that joined my dad did not achieve the level of success that he did simply because they did not work. If a product or service is not sold then no one and I repeat no one makes money. The thing is if you work a job you have someone making money off of your efforts. And those people typically make less money than someone else. And so on. Only one person gets to be the CEO and makes the most money besides the majority shareholder.

        As someone who has worked in a system like an MLM. Many of the people that joined did absolutely nothing! And I mean absolutely. I actually had people sign their independent business agreement, turn in their fees and disappear off the face of the earth. They probably talked to someone like you. Either way from all the responses on your site it seems the people who are for this type of opportunity outweigh you and the few who aren’t.

        • Keith October 17, 2011 at 9:27 am #

          Jeremy: You just tried to say all companies are “shaped like pyramids”. You quite clearly didn’t say they WERE pyramids, just shaped like them. But, naturally there wouldn’t be any reason for saying that unless you wanted us to believe that regular companies and MLMs are the same. Then you say you understand the system. I’m sorry, but that’s laughable. You are either ignorant of how MLM works or you are intentionally misleading my readers. Not good either way.

  6. PJ Mullen November 19, 2009 at 7:11 am #

    OK, I find it absolutely classic that someone would defend an MLM when the MLM’s own statistics proves that the only money to be made is in the top .15%. With any sales gig you can surely argue the 90/10 rule in terms of success, but any “distribution” method that results in success for only .15% of its base is not a distribution method, but an anomaly.
    .-= PJ Mullen´s last blog ..A post of thanks =-.

    • Keith November 19, 2009 at 10:43 pm #

      PJ, I was thinking the same thing. Why argue with the facts, right. My theory is that some people just don’t understand what Pyramid schemes really do. They see it as just another sales method. It’s their loss because they will be the ones suffering in the end.

  7. Angie November 19, 2009 at 8:16 am #

    Ummm….why pay for these cards when HALLMARK CARDS has FREE e-cards???????? Which we all know is what you send when you care enough to send the very best!!

    • Keith November 19, 2009 at 10:41 pm #

      Angie, Exactly! Excellent point! Clearly the point of any MLM has almost nothing to do with the “product”.

      • lARRY November 7, 2011 at 8:55 am #

        Keith,

        The Hallmark e-card comment was dripping with sarcasm, sorry it blew right past you and your ego.

        • Keith November 7, 2011 at 9:10 am #

          Larry: I have no idea what you’re talking about

    • Rachel August 22, 2011 at 2:41 pm #

      Actually, current numbers will show that there are many Eagles making millions now. And many others making 6 figures. And btw, these cards are MUCH different than just e-cards. These are physical, professionally-printed cards which the company sends out for you–postage and all–in the mail. I love sending cards! I just designed and sent my daughter’s 1st birthday invitations yesterday just by logging onto my SendOutCards account on my computer in my home! Much less expensive, easier, and more personalized than any other greeting card system I have ever heard of. I was even able to put pictures of my daughter in the card! The reason it is said that the system “sells itself” is because: once you actually TRY it for yourself, most likely you will become spoiled and not want to give it up. It is an easy, no-string-attached, convenient card system (you can also send gifts) which has changed my life. I have reached out in love and thoughtfulness to people I used to put off sending cards or getting in touch with at all. My life is much more full! Thank you SendOutCards.

      • Keith August 22, 2011 at 2:54 pm #

        Well, Rachel: That’s a good point. Maybe I’ll have Dennis write another article with the up to date Eagle stats. I’m not sure what the definition of “many” is, but I’d be curious to find out what it means to you. Listen, the idea of sending cards like this is not a terrible idea. That’s not the problem. The problem is that it’s an MLM when it doesn’t need to be. Does the company profit? You bet it does! Do individual distributors? Just like every other MLM, the averages are not good.

        • Rachel August 22, 2011 at 3:21 pm #

          I will comment again in a few months maybe. I intend to be a manager by then, and making a goodsized monthly paycheck. And I am taking any who will join my passionate, determined team with me. My first joins Friday. She will become financially independent right along with me as part of my team–not me getting rich because of her and others joining my downline. I only make money when I teach them to make money and they do it. And no, the majority of my income will not come from distributors joinin under me, but from the CUSTOMERS who enjoy sending the uniquely beautiful cards using the awesome SendOutCards system. :) Similar to how some people only use Pampered Chef, or MaryKay… Only, this company is reaching far more broad of a category.

    • George Puckett September 14, 2011 at 3:23 am #

      SendOutCards are not ecards. They are paper & ink. You can upload your own photos and use them in the cards. Best of all, the now have a new Retail plan where you may subscribe and purchase 10 or more cards per month for around $15 per month. I might add that the $15 price also includes postage.

      I am a distributor and everyone receiving a card from me, with a relevant photo gets very excited.

    • Bryon October 1, 2011 at 11:27 pm #

      Angie, these are real cards that are sent to an actual home or business…not an eCard. You can also pair the card you send with gifts (i.e flowers, chocolates, gift cars, trinkets, etc.). Very different than a Hallmark eCard on many different levels.

    • Michael Durish August 30, 2013 at 12:49 am #

      Oh yes an ecard is so personal. Delete.

  8. Tamy Pelletier November 19, 2009 at 7:37 pm #

    I’m with Angie. I’ve never heard of Send Out Cards, but it sounds like a lot of free stuff already out there… no wonder no one is making any money with it. Plus, you’re 100% right about the buisness model. It’s pyramid plain and simple and there’s no amount of saying it’s not that will change that fact.

  9. Tony November 23, 2009 at 1:19 pm #

    I paid $398 for the Entreprenuer package and I think it’s a pretty good deal. I don’t believe I’ll ever become rich doing it but for the price I can send a (actually very high quality) card to anyone without having to go to the store, get a stamp and put it in the mailbox. It has a contact manager that allows me to keep track of my business contacts, their family birthdays and more. If I’m traveling and have an Internet connection, I can send a real card to any of them in a minute or two for less than a dollar. And attach a nice gift if I want. And the thing about is that the person recieving the card is not innundated with an ad to join, Its transparent and unannoying that way. I think it will help my other business in more ways than I know. I’m tired of email cards anyways…

  10. Vanessa Bamback November 30, 2009 at 1:20 am #

    I started using SendOutCards for my real estate business. I didn’t know it was an MLM at first and I had no intentions of joining one. I joined as a customer. After I sent the first few cards, I realized what an incredible tool it was and I wanted to share it with the other 400 agents in my office. (I always tell people about the real estate tools that I like and no ever offered to pay me a commission for it~so why not). I’ve had a great time sending cards to family, friends and clients with photos and sometimes sending along gifts (brownies are one of my favorites) and gift cards (I always send a Starbuck’s card to other Realtors that send me referrals). It’s always nice to get something in the mail that isn’t a bill or junk mail.

    SendOutCards may be an MLM, but it’s a awesome product with incredible people behind it. I know the family and the story behind it and I wouldn’t trade the experiences I’ve had from sending heartfelt cards to my family and friends and the many wonderful relationships I’ve formed with other SendOutCards users for anything.

    I am transitioning from my 10 year career in real estate to SendOutCards full-time and I couldn’t be happier about it. I love sharing SendOutCards and my experiences with SOC with other people. Whether they just use it as a customer or as a distributor ~ I know that I am sharing something with them that is going to bless them 3 times…When they send that card…When the recipient receives it…and when the recipient calls and thanks them for it. It’s nice to know that someone was thinking about you.

    I know there have been some negative comments on this page, so I invite you all to go to my site at (sorry, Vanessa. I had to take out your link) and check it out for yourself. Send a card on me to someone you love or someone you owe a thank you card to and see how great it feels. I’m even covering the 1st-class postage.
    You can call me at 214-564-4548 if you have more questions.

    It may be an MLM, but it’s an MLM at it’s best! That’s not a bad thing. It’s an amazing product and a tribute to Kody Bateman’s brother, Kris Bateman. Kody had a prompting to hug his brother and tell him he loved him the last time he saw him…not knowing it would be the last time. His brother was killed in a work-related accident and he missed that last chance to tell him goodbye. Kody made a promise to Kris that he would never ignore another prompting and he would try to help others to do the same. That was 20 years ago and with SendOutCards he has preserved his brothers’ legacy and touched many lives by encouraging and giving us the tools to act on our promptings every day. Thanks Kody!

    • Marcie August 31, 2011 at 6:39 pm #

      So, I was approached by someone today at my job (I work at a department store) and this woman told me almost the same exact words that I just read in this post by Vanessa.What a bunch of crap, they are actually repeating the same thing. I figured I would investigate these “SendOutCards” on my own, and found this thread. I really don’t know what they are trying to “sell” or gain, but I am definitely going to stay clear. Thanks Almighty Dad.

    • Betty R October 24, 2011 at 10:07 pm #

      Vanessa Bamback posted this in 2009, so is she making the big bucks doing Send Out Cards full time now in 2011? Not according to her current LinkedIn page. According to that, she has been working as a realtor for various companies almost the entire time. She is still listed as a senior manager after having been in Send Out Cards for more than four years.

      According to Send Out Cards income disclosure 2010, senior managers have an average yearly income of $5,058 and a median income of $3,183. I do hope nothing bad has happened in her life that prevented her from achieving her Send Out Cards dream, but I also hope if that’s not the case, she doesn’t blame herself for not making a viable yearly income. I find it very sad that people think every one of those 95 percent plus who are not making a six figure income from this are not hard working, highly motivated people. Just a normal bell curve distribution suggests 10% should be at the very top, instead, .001% are. That tells you something.

  11. Josh Derby November 30, 2009 at 9:50 pm #

    So this article’s author owns an online advertising company?

    He profits from people NOT using network marketing, right?

    Realtors, Insurance Agents, Mortgage Lenders and so many other professions rely on Network Marketing to advertise and grow.

    SendOutCards pays most of its commissions on product that is purchased and used. Pyramid schemes involve NO products being moved or purchased. Pyramid schemes are ILLEGAL and Network Marketing Companies are LEGAL.

    If there’s one thing it takes to be successful with Network Marketing it’s FAITH. The same faith it would take to open a Donut shop or hardware store in your local town (or dare I add BLOG). There are Network Marketing companies that have been in operation for decades and are still operating decades after establishment.

    Your pyramid scheme image is irresponsible because SendOutCards is not a pyramid scheme. You’re misleading people. You’re in advertising primarily so it’s an understandable mistake to report improperly.

    Regardless, most of the wealth in this nation is in the top 1% – if you judge the distribution of wealth in the U.S. you could argue that being an American doesn’t make you any money. Which is correct because you have to do WORK to earn income.

    SendOutCards is upfront and honest about their company. I’m making money by promoting the business and coaching people to use the system. For my work I get paid. Just like when I punch a time-clock.

    • Keith November 30, 2009 at 9:58 pm #

      Seems the only people defending this are people who are also selling it — Josh. Should that surprise me? I’ve said everything there is to say. Sendoutcards is upfront about affiliate earnings because they are required to be by law. You’re a fool if you think they would report those numbers by free will; they’re terrible. Worse than brick and mortar startups — far far worse. You aren’t making any money, Josh, and if you are a betting person, you have better odds gambling in vegas.

      • Rachel August 22, 2011 at 2:55 pm #

        You should UPDATE your info, Keith. The company has been and still is growing successfully by leaps and bounds. If you kept up with the company, you would probably eventually realize how very outdated and mis-informative your article here is. Not to mention, you will be left behind outside the financial freedom so many have already accomplished and those who are still building towards.

        • Keith August 22, 2011 at 2:58 pm #

          Rachel: The numbers were completely up to date when it was written over a year ago. This article has had a crazy long shelf life for some inexplicable reason.

          • Rachel August 22, 2011 at 3:30 pm #

            Ah, ok. Yeah, I did notice it’s date. I just wish more people could experience how truly wonderful even just sending cards thru the SOC system is–even just as a product. But also there is great potential to be grasped of financial freedom through a well-renowned, honest company. I have been scammed in the past, so I know the difference between valuable opportuniy and too-good-to-be-true.

            • ME September 5, 2011 at 8:45 am #

              Brilliant blog Keith. Clearly MLM works for those that put in the time and endure the process, which is part of the “deal”. Just like any “job”, you have to work at it. Just like your blog. You put in time, comment on something that will create traffic, sell ads, and make money. What you do is feed off the MLM feasibility debate and generate traffic to your site and make $. Love it. BTW, I have many friends making 30K + per MLM endeavor – managing 4 of these can make a decent income. Not too difficult to figure out.

              • Lori Mercer October 15, 2011 at 6:29 am #

                Right on. Work your tail off on 3 or 4 MLMs to make reasonable living income. Exactly where does “stay at home with your kids” fit into that? Stay at home moms/dads have about 20ish (daylight) hours per week at the most to put into a job. You CANNOT run multiple MLMs effectively on those hours. In fact you can barely run one.

                AND…..Rachel, if you are good with promising a bunch of your friends all the same success, only to watch them struggle and fail, then good for you. That just didn’t sit well with me. Everyone loves the dream and the pitch. Everyone wants to stay home, work less, make reasonable income, even better, make more. But not everyone is cut out of that!
                I feel in to the trap before and sounded just like you. Very optimistic and hopeful. I was in the ground floor of a great new product and rose to director level in 9 months…..while pregnant, giving birth and working another full time job. Not that difficult reallly. But then it begins. You talk to 10 people to have 1 or 2 commit. even if 5 or 6 commit, only 1 really sales anything. They go in starts and fits constantly throwing money into their businesses for no return.
                And being the conscientious person I am, I am spending hours with them in webinars, phone calls, attending events to teach them the way. I even had one lady retire to do this business only to make a couple hundred dollars a month in the end.
                You can say I “wasn’t working the system” but that’s not true. I worked the system and the part of the system that really sucks is watching all the failures you bring on just so you can move quickly to the next 10 to find that one who is a winner and able to make MLM work.
                You are churning people’s lives to earn your living!!!!!
                I am right on with Keith here.

                If it’s a GREAT product, there are WAY more profitable and ethical business models that can generate even more profit for the company. Why go to direct sales? Because this is going to be a flash in the pan, the company runs off with big bucks, and goes to start their next MLM.

                Read my personal blog post on this topic: http://howwecangiveitall.com/my-life-lessons-from-direct-sales/

                • Robbie Hindman November 15, 2011 at 1:11 pm #

                  I do not believe in MLM and think that people involved in MLM are koo koos. I am a customer of Send Out Cards and love the product. I have been using Send Out Cards for my business for the past two years but did not share Send Out Cards with any of my colleagues or associates because selfishly, I wanted to use the product by myself. I am the Chief Executive Officer, Chairman of the Board, President and Chief Operating Officer of Wayland Realty and Robbie Hindman and Associates in Newport Arkansas and as a professional realtor and being named the top realtor in the State of Arkansas for 20 consequtive years, I need to keep my sources such as send out card tools at its secretcy.

                  Regards,

                  Robbie Hindman
                  Wayland Realty

  12. Josh Derby November 30, 2009 at 10:50 pm #

    Thank you Keith for giving us an observation and not a simple opinion. However your painful decision to be done with this makes it clear: you’re a quitter.

    I may be a fool but I also do not pride myself on my opinions. I do feel accomplished when I learn something new or tackle a debate of reason.

    Complying with laws makes you honest. Breaking laws makes you a criminal. Manipulating laws makes you immoral.

    Perhaps focusing efforts on necessities such as income instead of virtuous home-schooling or child-rearing you could begin to grasp the notion that life is a large guessing game with many odds.

    Sometimes work is more rewarding at certain times more than others. Maybe you see your halo through a tinted spyglass?

    • Keith November 30, 2009 at 11:06 pm #

      Josh, I hate to burst your bubble and all, but your assumptions about me are quite wrong. I’ve owned my own business and I’ve made quite a bit of money in the past so I know a little bit about that part of life too. I am a stay at home dad out of choice and because it is the best use of my time. You trashing stay at home parents as naive only shines a light on your own life’s gaping holes. The fact that you are threatened enough by me to post such an ignorantly assumptive rebuttal is humorous more than it is insulting. Now, why on earth would you feel the need to belittle stay at home parents and bloggers who write about parenting issues? What does that have to do with the central argument of sendoutscams, er, cards? Oh, and I do pride myself on my opinions, that’s true. Mostly because I value myself and the research I put into my arguments before I open my mouth or start writing. I pride my research and, by extension, my opinions. Nothing wrong with that.

      • Robbie Hindman November 15, 2011 at 1:20 pm #

        Keith,

        I am like you and think that MLM schemes are all scams. I remember when I was younger a bunch of friends I know got suckered in Amway and wanted me to join. I think I did and never made any money. As the Chairman, Chief Executive Officer, President, and Chief Operating Officer of Wayland Realty and Robbie Hindman and Associates in Newport Arkansas, I would not have been a customer of Send Out Cards if I knew that it was a MLM. I was clueless. Phil and Gina Sullins of Newport Arkansas and good friends of mine and we belong to the same swinger’s club . They are the ones who referred me to the system. I used it and the Send Out Cards system is so convenient for me for both business and personal, especially for sending out invitations to swingers convention functions. I am curious as of how people do as a distributor. If I were to get involved in a MLM business, I would probably pick Send Out Cards due to the unique useful product they have. It is a good product.

        Regards,

        Robbie Hindman, President and Chief Executive Officer of Wayland Realty
        Newport, Arkansas
        Also member of SLS

  13. Josh Derby December 1, 2009 at 1:14 pm #

    Don’t feel bad for a second Keith – You didn’t burst my bubble!
    Stop misconstruing what I said as well. I never trashed stay-at-home parents. I think it is one of the best situations for many couples with children. I was making disdainful remarks about your viewpoint is all.
    Let’s correct something as well. You have opinions – not research. All of the “research” posted here does not apply to SendOutCards. Your work here amounts to posting an image of an orange because you’re talking about the round edges of an apple.
    Consider then your position as owning your own business at one point or another. Did you have employees? Was there pay based on the work they contributed? From all sales did you not receive a portion for your personal profit?
    Because you like to boast that you’ve made quite a bit of money then you’ve “scammed” your employees. You were “scammed” by your personal start-up costs. Starting a business takes an enormous amount of time and money and to consider how hard my family has worked, your benighted opinions are hardly respectable forms of “research” on “scams” as a result of your slanted viewpoints.
    Take heed that while I despise the way in which you use your time and how you build inflammatory hype for your opinions I do appreciate that for your situation there is gender equality. If only more fathers could spend more time with their children we might live in a more balanced world.
    But alas, your ignorance founders you.

    • Keith December 1, 2009 at 6:36 pm #

      I didn’t misconstrue anything you said, Josh. “perhaps focusing efforts on necessities such as income instead of virtuous home-schooling or child-rearing you could begin to grasp the notion that life is a large guessing game with many odds.” That’s what you said. Everybody knows what you’re saying here. No misconstruing, Josh. I’ll let your own words dig your hole for you.
      Are you also saying that making a profit means I’ve scammed people? I’m pretty sure you’re going to lose that argument too. I didn’t ever boast about anything. Remember? I was responding to your assumptions about me from the above quote? Convenient memory you’ve got there.
      Nothing you say is going to cause me to “take heed”
      Lastly, let me just remind everyone here that Josh is selling Sendout Cards. It is in his best interest to trash me and try to defend his little piece of earth here. Notice, and it’s painfully clear, that the only people defending this distribution method are the people who are involved in it trying to get you to sign up.

  14. Josh Derby December 1, 2009 at 1:37 pm #

    Here’s a proper addendum to the “research” above.

    To join SendOutCards you have three options:
    1. Basic Retail – you get points to buy cards and access to Picture Plus, a service that allows you to print your own custom cards with full bleed images and text.
    2. Wholesale – you get more points than in Basic Retail at a reduced price, plus you receive your signature font for use in your cards and Picture Plus as well.
    3. Entrepreneur – just like the Wholesale you get points, signature font and custom card service.

    In all three instances product – here in the form of points which buy cards – is moved at each transaction.

    For pyramid schemes NO product moves. Absolutely NONE. SendOutCards moves product and only pays Entrepreneurs when product MOVES. Which it does each and every time a transaction occurs.

    Most people make money with SendOutCards because you earn a percentage (2% – 12%) on the amount of points people below you continue to purchase. Again, points are the product because they are used to pay for the cards. You are only paid when people below you buy cards and you receive a commission from that.

    There is nothing related to a Pyramid Scheme outside of using network marketing to promote the business and grow.

    Beware of network marketing companies that do not move product – SendOutCards moves tens of thousands of products a day.

    • Keith December 1, 2009 at 6:37 pm #

      “There is nothing related to a Pyramid Scheme outside of using network marketing to promote the business and grow.” Yeah, that what Dennis said, Josh. Nothing to see here except the big gorilla in the room!

  15. Josh Derby December 1, 2009 at 8:28 pm #

    Painfully clear Keith that attempting to belittle the people who defend SendOutCards is only emphasizing that only close friends of yours have even commented here.
    Your only defense is avoidance and pointing your finger elsewhere. You cannot be adult enough to admit the correlation I drew between you being atop a company, earning profit and having other people work below you. If it was a snake it would have bit you.
    Be proud of your ideal situation staying at home and let it be. If you’re at peace with it you should be able to leave it alone.
    My memory is a very convenient tool I posses and utilize in a fashion you have yet to demonstrate.
    Your opinions are worse than a wart on a finger, a pimple on the nose or a stay at home father who’s online blog partner spends hours a day playing Farmville on Facebook doing “research”.
    You clearly boasted that your resume included owning your own business that made quite a lot of money. Why lie?
    What has happened with these comments is this: three people defending a company that was irresponsibly reproached, ignorantly assailed and ruthlessly slandered.
    We have yet to hear from this author. We’ve only heard from you Keith. Two boys with toys that have no business wandering outside of their bubbles.
    Of course nothing said here that might challenge you would be something you would ever be capable to take heed.

  16. Dennis Yu December 1, 2009 at 8:54 pm #

    Hi Josh,

    It’s clear you like SendOutCards and want to vigorously defend it. How about writing a guest post that either Keith or myself can post? Rather than talk in generalities about how it’s a great service, how other forms of advertising/business are no better, or insulting other people, tell us specifically about your experience.

    Tell us when you started, how much time you’ve put in, what level you are, and what you’ve earned. Maybe talk about what has worked for you and what hasn’t. The more openly you share, the less one-sided you come off.

    Certainly, it may feel good to bash someone else, but it does less to help your cause and does more to make you look like a screaming Internet idiot. So I’d invite you to write a post that would be worthy of being run in the Wall Street Journal or other outlet, as opposed to a rambling rant that just attacks others and doesn’t educate.

    So there is an option for you– let me know what you think.

  17. Josh Derby December 2, 2009 at 11:24 am #

    I’ll accept your invitation, Dennis, with simple conditions.
    First, my guest post should be linked to your previous two posts on SendOutCards. That way both views are easily accessible.
    Second, there be no addendum or notes to the actual post. Comments allowed but no editing the content of the post from you or Keith.
    Finally, consider this as an appeasement and offer to apologize that I have offended you both.
    I am not considered vulgar or obnoxiously hateful by people who have actually met me and I do not act in such ways. Though I would have to say that the nature of your previous posts and comments did offend and were unfounded to myself, Vanessa and Debbie. Whether you intended to do so or not, that is still how your words and rhetoric were interpreted by us.
    I await your reply.

    • Betty R October 25, 2011 at 9:07 am #

      No Josh Derby listed as an active Send Out Cards distributor as of August 2011

  18. Dennis Yu December 2, 2009 at 11:32 am #

    Josh,

    That is fair. Also, no selling of SendOutCards or personal bashing– I think you know what would be acceptable. Tell your story, be specific– show people your personal experience as opposed to the rhetoric we see on most forums. We are looking forward to this– I think what you have to say will be interesting.

  19. Annie Sires December 7, 2009 at 12:54 pm #

    Ok, I felt a need to wade in here. It seems that there is a fair amount of bashing going on, but I need to clarify one thing: (sorry, I have to remove links — no disrespect intended)

    and here:

    (again, removing link. SEO reasons)

    This is the definition of a pyramid or Ponzi scheme. Legitimate MLMs are not Ponzi’s. That is a fact. You make money in an MLM by both getting customers and getting others who build a business. Like a traditional franchise.

    McDonalds could be called a Pyramid by the same methods berated above. Ok, I have been a Network Marketer for years. I have only customers. I have been making money, consistently, with Melaleuca for 4 years and I haven’t recruited a soul.

    No one. I have made money every month for 4 years and I haven’t worked my business in that time. Not once. Ok, so is it hard? Yes.

    Most people fail with an MLM because they don’t run it like a business. Period.

    And they aren’t taught how to run it like a business. So, do I recruit. No. Why? Because people looking for a business come looking for you through your customer base. Do I ask for huge sums? No, come to my business through a basic retail and see that it will work.

    I have looked at Send Out Cards. It offers a legitimate product, at a decent price. $99 and if you send out more cards, you pay more in order to pay less. Hey, that is how many many companies work.

    What I don’t understand from this group here is why you don’t try to discover the truth yourself? You bash and say “Oh, e-cards are better and free” or “Hallmark”. Ok, but what is Send Out Cards doing that works so well that it has so many customers. I am not saying the business builders. Customers.

    Sure, most of them don’t make money. I don’t go to McDonalds, buy a shake and a store. I go to get a salad (I don’t eat meat) and a drink. And then I leave.

    So, sure, if you ask them, “do you make money” 99% are going to say no. But if you ask them if they would continue to use the company’s products, 80% would say yes. I know this because this is the number you need to look at and that is quantifiable (return customer numbers).

    Sorry to interject, but it frustrates me when people jump out and say “Pyramid!” and they are not correct.

    Legitimate companies offer a legitimate service or product. Melaleuca, Pampered Chef, Partylite, Pre-Paid Legal and Send Out Cards.

    And they all are offering a product to customers AND a way to make money if you want. Most people just want the hamburger… not the store.
    .-= Annie Sires´s last blog ..The Things That Matter Most =-.

    • Keith December 7, 2009 at 1:33 pm #

      Annie, Thank you for your thoughtful reply. And, you make an excellent point. You’re actually right about what a pyramid scheme is. We used the term generically to describe businesses and a distribution method which I consider outdated and predatory. So, technically, you are right. I’ve always considered Pampered chef, Mary Kay, and Pre-Paid Legal to be legitimate businesses. But, let me also say in the same breath that, while I have some experience with all of those companies that the sellers of those services have always tried to get me to fall in under them to start selling. That is what bothers me most. So, the service might be acceptable (although I would argue the quality of sendout cards’ offering), but the pressure to sell is not. It is clear to me that for too many people the service is not what is important, rather it’s the recruitment of underlings that they find most important. To me that’s objectionable. When I go into a McDonalds I’ve never been asked to start a franchise after buying a hamburger. But, Pre-Paid legal has repeatedly tried to recruit me even though all I want is the service. My wife did Pampered Chef and it was the same story.

      I’ll agree with you that our categorization of the method as a pure pyramid is wrong. But, the spirit of a pyramid is very prevalent. That people don’t seem to care about the product as much as the recruitment of others. That is scammy to me. I would like to try a service without getting the pressure sell. It just doesn’t happen with MLM’s. The pressure sell is always there because there is strong incentive to be higher on the pyramid.

      There was a time when MLM’s were a necessary distribution method. They were intended to reach rural areas that did not lend themselves to traditional marketing. It was a word of mouth method that worked well for stay at home moms who didn’t get out much. To that end it was an admirable model. Today though they are unnecessary and somewhat disingenuous. No longer is it women who can’t get out or don’t watch TV. It’s people clambering to recruit each other and climb to the top of the heap. The innocence of the model has evaporated with the rise of mass distribution of media. It is unnecessary and, in my opinion, not a legitimate method anymore. Its time has come and gone. Take Tupperware for instance. They have transitioned to a traditional business model that is reliant on media to distribute their product. You don’t hear of Tupperware parties anymore. It just burned out. Mary Kay could easily do the same thing as they have pretty much reached their apex as well.

  20. Ronald December 11, 2009 at 10:12 am #

    Legally this is not a scam. Morally Send out cards and any other MLM is a HUGE scam. The few that make money do it by making outrageous claims of big money and just look at how rich they are! I was in an MLM for 2 years before I realized what a joke it was. I wasted 2 years of time and thousands of dollars. The only people that make the big money in these things are the sociopaths willing to lie and stretch the truth their way into it. It’s just social time for the rest of the distributors. DOWN WITH MLM!!!!!!

    • Keith December 11, 2009 at 10:22 am #

      Ronald, I absolutely agree with you. That’s the problem with MLM schemes. We can’t get rid of them because they’re selling an actual product. At the same time they use a model that, by it’s nature, ensures failure to the majority of it’s participants. It’s not a mystery why they exist. Simply, that a few people can get rich really quickly. Of course, they do it on the backs of suckers.

  21. Annie Sires December 18, 2009 at 4:06 pm #

    I have been in MLM’s in the past. The problem, to be frank, is not the MLM. Some people DO MAKE MONEY. The question is, are you willing to do what it takes to be successful? Or are you just a customer. People who want to make money forget to ask the right question and it’s one I ask every person I do business with: Am I calling YOUR name? What do I mean? Well, when I market my product, I am calling a name, “Bob”. I only want Bobs. In other words, I am saying “I market a product for people who want to have a way to remember to send a real card without having to go to the store and post office themselves.” Is that you? Does that sound like you? No? Ok, that’s ok. Then your name isn’t Bob and I am not calling your name. And if it is, do you want to make money to do it? It takes work. Lots of work. Lots of calling people’s names and hearing, “No, I’m not a Bob. I’m a Joe.”

    That’s it. No scam. People just don’t ask the right questions.

    This will offend, I know, I’m sorry right now, in advance. You didn’t get taken because the company was bad. You didn’t get taken. You gave your money willingly to buy a product. The rest was up to you. If I don’t get enough customers to buy my services as a dog trainer, it’s not the dog training that is bad or a scam. It’s my way of doing business. I’m sorry if that’s harsh. A lot of people hate the way MLM’s do business. The reality is that Microsoft does the same things. So do a hundred companies…. Heck, the CDC recently started telemarketing… so are they a scam?

    Please don’t take this wrong. I am not a huge business builder. But I have made money in MLMs. I am making enough to pay for my products in Melaleuca. And I haven’t worked my business in Melaleuca in 4 years. That means that the hand-full of customers I have have been paying for my business for 4 years. Do you know of another company or business outside of MLM where your customers 4 YEARS AGO are still paying you? Not many.

    Anyway, I wish you all well, I was actually doing some research and I am glad I found this site. God Bless you all and Merry Christmas. Personal KIND replies are welcome as are discussions. Flames telling me I’m the spawn of hell or Satan’s Mistress are not appreciated and are unprofessional, so please drop them in the trash before sending.

    Annie S
    Dog Trainer

    .-= Annie Sires´s last blog ..A Little Arm Twisting =-.

  22. Joseph December 28, 2009 at 10:52 pm #

    I’ve been using Send Out Cards as Thank You cards for my customers at my furniture store. I send out about 75 cards per month. We use to do the cards ourselves… purchase, address, mail, etc. Now that I use Send Out Cards I’ll probably save about $1,500 this year… about $1.50 savings per card. They are also done in my own handwriting.

    Keith, find me a better service at a better price and I’ll switch in a New York minute. It’s the best contact management tool I’ve ever found. It’s refreshing to send out personal “Thank You’s” the old-fashion way… especially when 60% of my email contacts get undelivered. And with escalating media costs for traditional advertising… customer appreciation is a welcomed strategy.

    Anyway, you’re doing a huge disservice to your readers by trashing Send Out Cards. If the MLM model keeps them afloat, then who cares. Bottom line: Valuable Product – Valuable Service… for the end user. Isn’t that what counts?

    And NO I don’t sell the product or benefit from my positive testimonial – except defending a service that has been of great value to my company.

    • Keith December 29, 2009 at 8:04 am #

      Joseph, I can’t verify who you are so I can’t take you at your word that you don’t work for or have some other interest in Send Out Cards. Your wordage here is just about the same as what they use in their promotional videos. And, I’m not doing a disservice to anybody by reporting what I think and using real facts to do it. I’m sorry they are inconvenient for you. Still — hardly a disservice. I don’t mind spirited disagreement, Joseph, but I do mind being told doing people a disservice by reporting the facts. Since when were facts a disservice?

  23. Greg Dallaire January 1, 2010 at 10:55 pm #

    Keith,

    I’m a Real Estate Agent that is thinking about implementing this type of system for marketing to expired listings, my past clients, birthdays, and so on. I’m not real keen on the whole MLM things and don’t really want to be put into that type of situation.

    Do you know of a similar service with a powerful contact management system that can do the same thing for less money?

    • Keith January 1, 2010 at 11:11 pm #

      Greg, That’s a great question. I typed in “personalized greeting cards” and got so many results that I’m not sure where to start. It seems that there are many services that can database your contacts and send greeting cards without the MLM Confusion. I need to look closer at it for a while to decide which ones are not rip-offs. Thank you for the question. I’ll do my best to find a good answer.

  24. Greg Dallaire January 1, 2010 at 11:13 pm #

    Keith,

    I appreciate your help trust me I’m googling along with you trying to find a reputable similar type option. I’m surprised that Hallmark doesn’t have a similar type system in place…. I’d love to see what you come up with because I need to get started on a system like this because I do see strong benefits for my Niche
    .-= Greg Dallaire´s last blog ..Wisconsin Lakefront Property-15559 Maiden Lake Road =-.

  25. NMPRO January 8, 2010 at 7:38 pm #

    OK, I admit I had to stop and ask myself whether I want to engage with such negativity. What they hay! I will never read this post again anyway. As a corporate professional with a Master’s in Business, I am compelled to set the record straight.

    First, the obvious. Pyramid schemes are illegal and when found by the FTC shut down immediately. Determining a pyramid scheme is super easy. It involves people asking for money to join a business program, but there is no tangible product or service being transferred. For years most crooks have decided to use the network marketing model for their Pyramid scheme cover. Hence the industry has gained a stigma they’ve never been able to shake.

    A few facts about SOC, there were two Eagles as of September 2009, so the first posting is incorrect. The fact that SOC discloses their income figures makes me more comfortable with them. They are not trying to hide anything. I invite you to look at figures from any other legitimate MLM. Take Amway for instance. They have been around for over 50 years and while they’ve create hundreds of millionaires, they have far more distributors that made little or no money. By the way, I assure you if you consider Amway or Mary Kay or Pampered Chef, or several other well known direct sales companies to be scams, then why hasn’t the FTC shut them down? I’ll tell you why. Because the FTC regulates what is legal and what is not and they are legal…legit. You can disagree all day long. That is your given right. But if you are law-abiding, you can’t argue their legitimacy.
    Now, lets take a look at your typical corporate structure. Usually a President and CEO at the top, several middle management, and many worker bees at the bottom. Sketch this out geometrically and it is a Pyramid. By your explanation, most of corporate America is a scam.,,ummm. maybe so. Guess who gets 80% of the profits in the corporate pyramid? The guys at the top of the pyramid. Guess who does 80% of the efforts, the guys at the bottom. That is just the way it is. Is it fair? I don’t know. The guys at the top typically put up the most risks and in most cases worked hard to get there. MLM is the same with one major difference—-the people at the bottom can make the same as the people at the top. Is it easy? No, but is it easy to become CEO of a corporation? No. So, really everything is relative. 90% of businesses fail in the first few years, 90% of people who try network marketing businesses fail in the first few years. The big difference in these failures…the traditional businesses lose thousands and even millions. Network Marketers lose a few hundred dollars in most cases. This is another reason for the bad wrap with MLM. You see not as many people have experience failure with traditional business because few have the capital to start that type of business in the first place. Almost everyone can attempt network marketing and no experience is necessary. Unfortunately, for many they don’t succeed and instead of being honest with why they failed, they start telling everyone they got burned in a scam. The sheer numbers tell the tale of why MLM has gained an unfair wrap. Sure there are scams and many are wrapped under an MLM costume. But then again, scams happen in corporate too. Ever hear of Enron?

    If I ever do read this post again, I’m sure you smart folks will tell me how wrong I am. Well, the next time I drive to the bank and cash a check that keeps growing every month, I’ll try and figure out what I’m so wrong about.

    Did you know at todays savings rate of around 2.5% you need 1.4 million dollars in the bank to generate $3000 of interests a month. It takes many hard working network marketers about 2-3 years to generate that same income every month and it keeps growing. I’m talking residual income. It comes in whether you work or not.

    Okay, that is my rave. Guess you’ll do the word count now. While you do, I’ll count my scam money!

    If you ever want to debate this with a guy that will invite it. Go to networkmarketingpro.com

    • Keith January 8, 2010 at 7:52 pm #

      Thanks NMPRO (I’m really not surprised). So, you’ve successfully managed to get people to sign up UNDER you so you can then make money. Good for you. Go roll around in your money while all those other folks you scammed struggle. Bravo. BTW MLM schemes register and disclose their figures to the government for a reason. It’s because there are so many frauds out there that people need a little protection. The disclosure to the government is for the protection of potential targets. Of course there’s a sucker born every day. Which you have apparently figured out. Also, if you aren’t EAGLE level you don’t have much money to roll around in anyway.

  26. real-estate@agent January 12, 2010 at 12:50 am #

    “Our previous post now ranks #6 in Google for “Sendoutcards.com scam” and has been attracting attention. That’s what happens when you’re on the first page of a reasonably popular term. ” This is the target for all professional blogers
    .-= real-estate@agent´s last blog ..can anyone tell me where I can buy a house in Portugal without going through an agent? =-.

  27. Robert January 29, 2010 at 5:24 pm #

    I am in awe at the ignorance and legalistic views of the the creator and authors on this site!

    I have been researching MLM for years and the inmature and damaging views of this site are AMAZING!

    There are many good and reputable MLM around – that does not mean all the people involved are that way, but hay you get that in EVERYTHING! You guys don’t even know what a “pyramid scheme” is! God help us!!! the several people who have actually made sense – you crucify like fly’s….. I suggest that this toxic – misinformed – immature – site be shut down straight away!!!

    • Keith January 29, 2010 at 6:32 pm #

      Robert, You want to shut down a site because you don’t agree? Wow, and you’re calling me ignorant? :-) Good luck with that!

  28. Dennis Yu January 29, 2010 at 8:09 pm #

    It’s usually the ignorant ones that yell the loudest and are calling others ignorant. A clear tip-off is multiple grammar and spelling mistakes– accompanied by all caps and multiple exclamation points. Unable to make their points in plain English, they resort to insults, which is about as effective as dumping more salt and pepper on a poorly cooked meal, hoping it will taste better.

    Funny to see who is uneducated. The power of the web allows anyone with a voice to state their message, better or worse.

  29. Sally February 2, 2010 at 10:53 am #

    Use BlueSuitCards.com – they send a beautiful, unique, hand-crafted 3 dimensional greeting card to your client list each month. Allows you to stay in your clients face, get more repeat business and more referrals.
    No multi-level marketing and no affiliate network.

  30. J Barnes February 3, 2010 at 2:12 am #

    I am thankful to the friend who introduced me to SOC. I, like him, despise most MLM programs (I wouldn’t waste my time with Amway.) I continue to get positive feedback from those whom I have sent cards via SOC. I understand it could take quite a while to build a business with SOC, but I am in no hurry. I’ll just keep on enjoying sending cards. My sponsor is slowly building a rather prosperous SOC business. He owns a very successful business, hates MLM’s, but sees SOC a terrific tool to communicate with friends and family. The program works. Enjoy it!

  31. John H February 3, 2010 at 11:44 am #

    I have one question. If you know that there is a 95.5% chance that the person who signs up with SOC will not make it passed the distributor level (which all you recruiters claim will happen in weeks if you sign up) why do you sell it? Is it because you truly think the person you just met can be better than the 95.5% of recruits that the company has already signed? Or is it because all your thinking about is the money that you can make for yourself and if that person fails its his/her problem?

    • Keith February 3, 2010 at 12:04 pm #

      John: Couldn’t have said it better myself. Everyone’s just tripping over themselves to sell more. It’s not the product that matters to them, it’s the sales. People? Nah, just the sales. That’s the sort of behavior MLM fosters.

  32. Bill Ryan February 11, 2010 at 3:21 pm #

    Dennis, you certainly have a right to your opinion. I am a Realtor and use Send Out Cards for my business. Last year I closed 3 deals I would have never gotten without Send Out Cards. I also listed a 3 million dollar home because the seller called me after seeing one of my cards. So as a realtor tool it is great. As far as the scam comments you should compare the success of people and businesses in the mainsteam before you decide such nonsense. I have trained new realtors for a long time and I can tell you that 85% quit in the first year. Not because the business is bad but because they don’t want to do what it takes. In our area restaraunts are not much more successful. Anyone that has the drive and desire will make money with Send Out Cards.

    Many of life’s failures are people who did not realize how close they were to success when they gave up. –Thomas Edison

    I have and am still makeing money with Send Out Cards and will never stop using this great service.
    Bill Ryan

    • Keith February 16, 2010 at 11:37 pm #

      Nothing we’ve said is nonsense, Bill. They’re called facts. And there’s a reason that MLM’s need to publish these numbers. It’s required by law for all MLM’s to release them. Do you know why? Because MLM’s have a fantastically high fail rate compared to other businesses. The only people defending this scheme are people selling it. I’m frankly not surprised that you do too. Of course you do. And, no, not only will everyone not make money. The vast majority will never see a dime. Those who do make money make a pittance. Real businesses fail because they don’t make enough to sustain a living for the person running them. Nobody is going to retire or make a living out of sendoutcards. At best it’s a hobby, and not a very profitable one and certainly not a business to be compared with hard working people who intend to make a WHOLE living of their efforts at a single business. Get real, and stop shilling for sendoutcards. You haven’t made any money with it so why are you trying to scam other people? Because you want them under you so YOU can make money? Hardly unbiased advice.

  33. Bill Ryan February 11, 2010 at 3:31 pm #

    You can be a user of Send Out Cards without joining the business. I can tell you numerous stories about how I use it in my RE business that none of the other products can do.
    Bill Ryan
    Century 21 Shoreland

  34. RobertInComo February 16, 2010 at 11:56 pm #

    Keith, you are doing a terrific job by considerately and thoughtfully rebutting every post that promotes SOC or any other MLM. But, sadly, you are fighting a losing battle.

    I’ve watched several MLM pitches purely for the forensic fascination (I would never buy into one). My latest one to watch was for u-first financial, a scam involving paying off a mortgage early by using HELOCs. Like all the others, the prime focus is on selling the system to others. It’s a scam that is actually illegal in some states. At least SOC has a legit product, not that they are pitching it, lol.

    I am fascinated with the arguments proffered by the faithful, people who just cannot understand the fallacy of what is presented even though the evidence against is as clear as proving that 2 + 3 = 5. It simply boggles the mind. It’s almost as if the afflicted possesses some abnormal gene that switches off cognitive reasoning.

    Even though I still enjoy the theater of watching these presentations from afar, I have given up trying to dissuade the gullible. Each will eventually learn on their own. And, really, the best education is always the personal one.

  35. Bill Ryan February 17, 2010 at 7:12 am #

    Hi Dennis,
    You sure managed to skip most of my comments. The point I was making is it is a great business tool. I am not silling for anyone and have a real job. Or do you consider Real estate sales a scam too! I have had more closings in my Real Estate business because of Send Out Cards. Is that a good tool if it makes me more money in my “Real Business”? What is your real business? I could make a case for Almighty Dad being a scam.
    Bill Ryan

    • Keith February 17, 2010 at 9:04 am #

      Bill: You drew the comparison between sendoutcards and other business ventures. You said real estate has an 85% drop out rate. If you care to take a moment to comprehend simple english it’s pretty easy to understand. The 15% who do continue with real estate do it as a primary job. Get it? The fail rate for sendoutcards is so massively high that only the top tier (and nobody has made it there) can use it as a primary source of income. Following me? So you can’t compare the success rates of a real business to that of sendoutcards if the standards for success are different. Success in a real business means supporting your family. Success is sendoutcards is essentially not losing any money and perhaps making 500 bucks a year, if anything at all (not even enough for car insurance). Oh, and thanks for commenting. So, now go ahead and tell me how I’m scamming people with Almightydad. Go ahead. Seriously.

      • Michael Durish August 30, 2013 at 1:09 am #

        Kieth what your missing is many joined as distributiors solely to purchase the cards at the wholesale level rather then retail. Most are realtors insurance pros or in a number of other fields where keeping in touch with clients on a personal level us essential to there businesses success.I own a ccabinetry and wine cellar construction business and I would rather pay .62 cents for a card over .98 when sending in excess of 150 cards a month it adds up over a year. So before you take the stats for SOC and say everyone fails perhaps many join at the distribution level for the cost savings in the long run.Also how many join purely for tax purposes. To many variables to make a broad sweeping statement like “scam”.

  36. Bill Ryan February 17, 2010 at 7:15 am #

    Hi Dennis,
    One other thing! I have made money with Send Out Cards and it is easy If you mind is not polluted with the junk you regurgitate.
    Bill Ryan

    • Keith February 17, 2010 at 9:17 am #

      Bill: I did a little google search for you (using your phone number to make sure I got the correct Bill Ryan). Turns out you lie. You do sell the scam. You even have a website trying to suck people in. You talk about things like “residual income”. You know very well what that means. That means you encourage people to sign up under you then get other people to sign up under them. You all get “residual income” from people further down the pyramid. I’m tired of people like you lying to people just to make a buck for yourselves. If you’re going to try to make a point the least you should do is disclose what’s in it for you. You’ll notice on this blog I disclose every corporate affiliation I have. You should to the same if you expect to be taken seriously.

  37. Bill Ryan February 17, 2010 at 9:38 am #

    Apparently you are still not listening. I told you I sell Send Out Cards and do make good money doing it (a lot of people are). My main business is real estate and I make money with that as well. You don’t know me and should not talk about people taking advantage of anyone if you don’t know better. I explain exactly what Send Out Cards is and what it takes to make money if that is what they are interested in. I sell far more wholesale accounts where people are only using it to make more money in their business. Google Joe Girard if you want to become informed about the value of using greeting cards in your business. I am a very honest person and never would mislead anyone. Send Out Cards is an Inc 500 company and the 3rd largest greeting card company in the world.
    Bill

    • Keith February 17, 2010 at 9:48 am #

      You said you don’t sell for anybody. But, if you’re making money off of someone signing up under you then someone else must be making money for you signing up under them. Effectively that would mean you’re selling for someone. That’s why I thought it was a dishonest statement.

    • Betty R October 25, 2011 at 8:42 am #

      As of August 2011, Bill Ryan is listed as a Send Out Cards Senior Manager

      https://www.sendoutcards.com/dist-recognition/

      Assuming this is the same Bill Ryan who posted this comment in 2010, that means he’s in the bracket that averages $5,000 a year gross–prior to expenses and who knows how many hours of work. I don’t consider that “making good money” (although someone might of course). We know for a fact that no, a lot of people are not making money in Send Out Cards (unless you consider the .04% of people in it making more than six figures “a lot”) –it’s right there in black and white. They publish these income disclosures to avoid being censured for income misrepresentation by the Federal Trade Commission.

      Other passionate Send Out Cards defenders here (ones that used their real, full names) posting in 2009 and 2010 are either no longer listed as active distributors, or haven’t gotten above the Senior Manager level. Even if they had, we know by looking at the numbers they would be the grand exception.

  38. Doug February 28, 2010 at 6:03 am #

    Hi Keith,

    I just joined up with SOC and I am doing my research. So I haven’t made a cent, it’s been one day. But my wife has been able to send some personal cards to friends who deserve them. Like her friend who has been unemployed and just landed a teaching job. Like a birthday card to her nephew.

    And I sent a customised card to my Mum 2000km away with four photos of her grandson and picked a card that would have meant something to her and typed in a nice message.

    You know what? Without SOC they wouldn’t have got those cards. Because we are like a lot of people, have good intentions but don’t follow through. My wife loves this thing.

    From the Blue Suit Website mentioned above… “The price for the Business Monthly Greeting Card Service is $5 per card plus postage. All database maintenance, design, production and mailing services are included in the price per card.”

    Hey, we chose our card, added our own photos, typed a one off personal message for $1.50, not $5 plus the time to make sure they get my message right. Yes we paid extra, for the commissions, but I’ll back myself that other people think this is a good idea as well.

    At least I feel I can approach friends and family with this idea, unlike Amway etc.

    By the way, have you had a go at Amway. There is some material you could go to town with, and I would be posting my own Scamway experience.

    I’ll be in touch to let you know how it goes.

    Cheers Doug

    • Keith February 28, 2010 at 10:41 am #

      Doug: The idea of sending cards at a reduced price is a good one. That’s not my beef, and I wouldn’t have a problem with people using it simply for that purpose. But, this sort of service is not tupperware or Mary Kay; there is no physical product being sold outside of the main facility where these cards originate. There is no need for it to be an MLM. What is there for a seller to sell other than an opportunity to make money? It would be like if I said I had a candy factory somewhere in North Dakota. Instead of advertising like a normal company (SEO, SEM, Print and other media) I employ an MLM strategy (which is no risk to me but high risk for the person actually doing the marketing). A person who goes door to door or talks up his friends about my candy doesn’t have a physical product to show (all my candy is in the factory waiting to be sent.) They simply say “Hey, if you become my customer then I make money. Then you get someone else to be your customer and you make money.” But, where’s the product? It’s still in the factory; nothing is actually changing hands at the point of sale (it will, but they need to wait for my candy to be sent). Now, that doesn’t mean it’s illegal. In fact, it’s perfectly legal. There IS a product, cards, candy, whatever. It’s a distribution method that is designed to outsource marketing to people with the promise of riches. Unfortunately it’s a method too many people don’t understand. No demand is ever going to pay for the volume of marketing being done. Multi Level Marketing is a run away model that leaves you holding the bag at the end. Again, my candy factory pays zero dollars for marketing because I’ve gotten you to do it for me. You put in the effort with a hope that you’ll make enough to pay for your time and more. What I’m saying is that without a physical product (Like Tupperware or Mary Kay or something) it’s a hard sell. People want to actually see a product. That’s why the fail rate on these sorts of MLM’s is so high. It’s a lot of work for very little reward. The founders of the company know that too.

      I’m not going to say that SOC sells an inferior product. I will say though that their costs are low and yours are high (your time is worth more than you might think). If I’m going to send cards, I’d rather just get a card from the store than put up with the hassle of the hard sell. I do get Prepaid Legal and I’ve found that to be very useful for me because it’s a valuable product. I still get the random phone call or e-mail from the person who signed me up. She tries to get me to become a seller. Now, that’s annoying because I’m never going to sell PPL. But, the product is such that I’m willing to put up with that annoyance. It’s a product that I can’t get elsewhere for a reasonable price. I don’t see that trade with cards.

  39. Dennis Yu March 3, 2010 at 3:57 am #

    65 comments! And this post ranks #2 on “send out cards scam” on Google.

  40. Mona Carol-Kaufman March 4, 2010 at 10:49 am #

    I think that the bottom line here is that the product does not work for you. That’s okay. There are many of us who are using the product ourselves. And for the record – the 3 folks that I have signed up are NOT distributors. They are just regular customers who also see value in the service.

    Again – not into this to retire. Not into this to go up the ladder. I see this as a valuable tool for my own business (as a graphic designer) and if I can make a little bit of extra cash selling it to other folks who also see the value in having cards sent out for them, rather than doing it themselves, then what’s the harm?

    Not all of us who are distributors are doing it for the MLM, and that is where your reasoning is flawed…

    *puts on fireproof gear in case of flames*

    • Keith March 4, 2010 at 1:57 pm #

      Well, Mona. My reasoning isn’t flawed. I’ve said it several times that I don’t have a problem with the service itself (although it’s of no use to me). I have a problem with the distribution method. People honestly believe they’ll make a business out of this thing, and they just won’t. That’s not flawed reasoning, that’s just facts. Cards? Good idea. Distribution method is what’s flawed.

  41. Mona Carol-Kaufman March 4, 2010 at 2:21 pm #

    I do agree with you, BTW, on principle, regarding MLMs. I think in general they are doomed to fail. I don’t, personally, see this as a means to retire. I do think, however, it’s nice every once in a while to get a check in the mail because someone who I sold this system to buys points to buy cards.

    However, I realize that I am in the minority when it comes to this. I don’t fall for smokescreens and magic pills.

  42. Matt March 16, 2010 at 1:05 pm #

    My wife and I both use this send out cards for our business all the time, we love it. We were appoached about selling the product, or the system if you call it that but it’s not for us. We we involved with Quixtar (back to being Amway now) for over a year and made a little money (best month $1200 bucks) but just don’t want to go down that road again. However I know for a fact we save money and time by using the thing, if you can make money selling it I don’t know.

    • Keith March 16, 2010 at 1:11 pm #

      Thanks for the comment, Matt. And, thank you for contributing with your perspective on it. I’m not particularly against people who use it like they’d use any other consumer product and who don’t see it as a means to a career. It just that I believe there are too many hard salesmen out there who aren’t willing to be completely upfront about how MLMs actually work. But, for the people who know better and can just use it for the actual product? Yeah, I’m cool with that. I don’t want to see people who don’t do due diligence get scammed (even if they sorta deserve it for not reading the fine print). Thanks again Matt for sharing your experience. :-)

  43. Howard March 18, 2010 at 6:03 am #

    I find this site very interesting.

    My wife is a distributor with Sendoutcards; however, she did not get into Sendoutcards to make a whole lot of money. I am an insurance agent with a very success property casualty business. In fact, I have over 6 thousand clients I service. I asked my wife if she would mind being a distributor just in case I had some of my clients, as I sent them cards, were interested in Sendoutcards she could get them started using it and we could offset some of our costs of sending cards for my growing property casualty business.

    My main reason for becoming a Sendoutcards…

    Sendoutcards is a viable product for what I do in my business. It’s convenient, it is very well priced, and it helps me remember client’s birthdays and anniversaries by sending emails reminding me to send a card. These are real cards that go in the mail, not an ecard! Sendoutcards stores my contacts in the system and it allows me to send a card in my own handwriting. I can automate my card sending by creating a template and send it out to a few or hundreds. I can send a card and post date it to go out in the future. I can create a customized card or I can use one of the stock cards and pay less than a dollar plus postage.

    When I purchased Sendoutcards, I paid about $300 and my wife paid about $100 for the distributorship part of the package. For my $300 I got a contact manager system, handwriting form that allowed me to create my own handwriting. I filled the form out and sent it to Sendoutcards and Sendoutcards created a font out of my handwriting and added my signatures. Now when I send a card it is in my handwriting.

    With my purchase, I got enough credits to purchase about 100 greeting cards. I figured the average card, if I was going to run down to the local Hallmark or grocery store, was going to cost me $2 to $5 plus my time. If I bought 100 of them it would cost me $200 to $500, not much different than the cost of purchasing a Sendoutcards user license. But, after my first initial 100 cards were used up, I would only have to pay 62 to 93 cents a card after that. As the person that signed me up said, “You can’t go to Wal-Mart and get a card for that price!”, which is a true statement because I have tried since I started using Sendoutcards.

    I love Sendoutcards and I have referred a few people to my wife and she has signed them up to use the system and they enjoy the product as well as we do. As I mentioned above, my wife did not get involved in Sendoutcards thinking she was going to make a whole bunch of money, just enough to offset the cost of sending a few cards and so far that is exactly what it has done.

    From the approach of the person that signed me up for Sendoutcards, I suspect a majority of the distributors and customers that sign up for Sendoutcards are much like my wife and I. We love the product and may casually refer a few people here and there.

    I find the approach that was used on me quite refreshing, I was not pitched a “home based business opportunity” that was going to rock my world and set me free for every like most MLMs do. I was presented Sendoutcards as a great keep in touch strategy and maybe my wife and I could refer a few people along the way. For an extra $100 I saw no harm in it.

    Over the last 3 years I have been using Sendoutcards, I have run into several users of the system who are much like me and were approached about Sendoutcards much in the same manner. I suspect this is probably why a majority of Sendoutcards distributors are not making money, because they are not getting into Sendoutcards to make a whole lot of money.

    I hope my post is taken as an honest post it is and not ripped apart like some of the other posts I have seen just to see the ranking of this site to go up when Send out cards is Googled.

    • Keith March 18, 2010 at 8:41 am #

      Howard: I don’t rip apart the other posts just to see the ranking go up (even though it helps). I do it because most people who comment didn’t actually listen to what was said in the article. Thank you for your thoughtful assessment of the program. I appreciate the time you took to explain your experience.

  44. Lori March 21, 2010 at 9:01 am #

    A friend of mine wants me to sign up. I found this website thought provoking.

    • Keith March 21, 2010 at 11:21 pm #

      Lori: If all you want to do is send cards and you do the cost benefit analysis to make sure you won’t lose money then I’d say it an ok system. But, if you want to make money? Forget it. There’s no chance. You’d be better off starting a blog and doing adsense :-) And that isn’t making me rich, that’s for sure! Thanks for stopping by.

  45. Jeff McCullough March 21, 2010 at 1:39 pm #

    The reason 95% of all people make nothing in Send Out Cards is because 95% of all people who become involved in network marketing are not willing to get the proper trainer or put in the amount of work it takes to become successful. The 5% at the top, got there by working and receiving the proper training. Just like in any other business. I have a friend who became a senior manager in Send Out Cards in less than 60 days. Why? because he worked. If you had it your way, everyone would pay the $398 and received equal compensation regardless of their efforts. Nice plan Obama!!! Send Out Cards is in Inc. Magazines fasting growing companies. You don’t become one of the fastest growing companies in America by scamming people. Watch this video on the TRUTH about network marketing.

    Moderator Edit: Jeff did not disclose that he is a heavily involved with sendoutcards himself.

    • Keith March 21, 2010 at 8:42 pm #

      Jeff: That 5% “at the top” you mentioned. Yeah, they still barely made money. And, like I’ve said to almost everybody who is defending the system, the standards for success at sendoutcards are pretty pathetic. In a real business a person has to support his family. “success” at sendoutcards is equivalent to making a few bucks. Therefore, the failure rate at sendoutcards, if you want to actually make a full-time living from it is really almost 100%. It’s not a matter of effort, it’s a matter of getting into a smart business. It would have been much more honest of you to disclose the fact that you have a financial interest in saying sendoutcards is “just like any other business”. I noticed your twitter account is devoted (entirely) to sending out sendoutcards advertisements to all 1500 fans you’ve got.

    • Betty R October 25, 2011 at 9:03 am #

      No Jeff McCullough listed as an active Send Out Cards distributor as of August 2011.

      https://www.sendoutcards.com/dist-recognition/

      Send Out Cards also not listed on his current LinkedIn page, but another MLM is.

  46. Howard March 25, 2010 at 11:00 am #

    Keith, unlike many on this blog, I did disclose that my wife paid the extra $100 to become a distributor. I also disclosed that I got in to Sendoutcards mainly to use the system for the most part and if I referred a few people (of which I have) it would offset my costs and allow me to send event more of my clients cards and gifts. Of which, it had done.

    I have met many Sendoutcards distributors at networking events like BNI and Chamber of Commerce that have join with similar intent. In Fact, my local Chamber in Arizona is a Sendoutcards distributor for the very same reason we are.

    There are many of us who joined as a distributor not to make serious income or even part time income, rather, to refer a few to offset our costs.

    I suspect that you are talking about apples (people that joined wanting to make part time or full time income) when the majority of the of Sendoutcards distributor base in the disclosure statement are oranges (like me, joined to offset costs and be a casual referrer).

    I am very confident there are a large number of distributor (larger than 60%) that are like me and my wife that skew the disclosure statement data that you are trying to base your facts on.

    • Keith March 25, 2010 at 12:57 pm #

      Howard: I’ve never seen an MLM with a high, or even acceptably low, success rate. You might be right about people like yourselves skewing the numbers a bit. But, then again, these stats are pretty typical for MLMs so the same would have to be true for all of them. I’ll just have to disagree about how many people are in it trying to make money. The sad truth is is that there are just too many people in the world thinking they can get something for nothing, or at least very little. MLMs make a convenient case study in that behavior because they are the perfect breeding ground for it. Of course there will always be people like you and me (I’m a member of Pre Paid Legal) who just want the service and not to become sellers. But, having seen the spam business up close, I can tell you there are just sooo many suckers in the world and there are plenty of scammers willing to lie to take advantage of them. Just look at some of the commenters here who don’t seem to grasp the point or who outright lie about who they are and what they want. Some of these folks really give the honest ones a very bad name, and they aren’t making SOC look any better by not being truthful about their affiliations. Just makes them look more shifty. I’d have respect for anybody who says “I sell it, and I want you to buy from me, but this is why I honestly believe it’s a good thing.” People don’t do that. They call names, pretend they’re random passers by (when I know the keywords they came in on). Anyway. I guess you and I just disagree about human nature. Thanks again for visiting and participating, Howard. Have a good week.

  47. Dennis Yu March 27, 2010 at 3:46 am #

    Wow, I can’t believe there are 80 comments on this article. Not all MLMs are scams– and even though most people don’t make any money on Send Out Cards, it certainly is okay for folks to do it just because they personally want to buy cards via the service. The folks who are deluded into thinking that they’ll get rich might not realize the uphill battle they face. Let the figures that Send Out Cards themselves released show the reality, which is quite different than the marketing sales pitch.

    Some level of puffery is okay. Do you really believe that drinking that particular brand of beer will cause those attractive women to come flocking to you– or if you buy that particular weight loss pill, that magic will happen? To what degree the advertised results, implied or stated with enthusiasm, are different from reality is a judgment call.
    .-= Dennis Yu´s last blog ..Google Analytics in Korean– and a scary thought =-.

  48. Steve March 30, 2010 at 4:17 pm #

    Like many people, I have tried a few MLM’s. My beef with most MLM’s is the HUGE number of people you must have in your down line in order to make good money. And in order to do so, you have to talk to an massively high number of people.

    My good friend got me involved in Send Out Cards and I will not be renewing my distributor status; other than being a sender of cards. I won’t build a business. It’s a nice concept, very convenient, but certainly takes more work than most people are willing to put forth.

    What has killed me in the past with MLM’s is what one has to do in order to build a big business–talk to everyone, at all times, under any circumstance. It’s called the “3 foot rule”–anyone within 3 feet of you is a prospect. The lady in front of you at the grocery store, the guy in line at the movie, the young woman pushing her child on the swing at the park. What is absolutely PATHETIC is the less then genuine nature of the conversation. You’re just simply planning your next question or comment to get them involved. So incredibly deceitful. The inappropriate scenarios I have seen my friend talk about SOC would anger you.

    If I hear, “Hey, just act on your promptings” one more time, I am going to slam my fingers in the door.

    If any of you have a friend in SOC, you probably notice cards seems to solve everything:
    -Had a spat with my brother -”send him a card”
    -Need to impress a client- “Send them a card”
    -Not sure what to buy my daughter for her 25th birthday – “Send her a card”
    -I am feeling in the dumps today- “Send yourself a card”

    Several years ago I had a friend of mine (who I met through an MLM) over to my office (I own my own firm) On my desk was a photocopy of three checks from just one client I had done work for that totaled $22,500.00–he looked at the checks and simply said, “Wow, I have to be honest with you, I’ve never personally known ANYONE in any of the MLM’s be able to show me THEIR checks that even comes close to that”.

    The question i ask MLM’ers is simple. Have them divide their gross income by the number of hours they put into the biz in a year (then add a huge fudge factor for the lie they tell you). 99% of them would be better of flipping burgers.

    • Keith March 30, 2010 at 4:35 pm #

      Steve: Wow! This is by far the most well thought out answer in this chain (including my own). You are absolutely correct. The question is really two fold. How much money is possible to make in an MLM, and what will you need to do, compared to other jobs, to achieve that level? You correctly point out that the system certainly does not sell itself, and in order to have any degree off success the distributor might as well become a huge douche around everybody he knows in order to get it done. Even then the amount of effort and asshattery required is off the charts. I’ve known MLM folks in my day. I can’t even be near them because I know where the conversation is going. Thanks, Steve for the great insight.

  49. Steve March 30, 2010 at 5:34 pm #

    Keith,

    You’re right; the chicanery that MLM people lower themselves to in order to make great money-or even a paltry amount, is unbelievable. It goes way beyond simply letting someone know the business you’re in—and letting it go. Too often, it’s ALL they talk about. Most of my friends would drop me like a hot potato if I was endlessly blathering on about my firm’s day to day affairs. Who does that?

    Survey says, boorish people.

    Sadly, every conversation I have with these newly minted SOC people is about SOC. So many SOC people have become indoctrinated that it is almost cult like. If you say anything contrary or questioning to them, it is taken very personally. SOC will have to come out with a line of diapers for these babies.

    My friend works harder at SOC than most people do at their jobs. After 6:00. I walk away from my business. Him? He is doing a walk through, or a webinar, or going to a social event intent on “sharing”. I honestly want him to make a mint with SOC; if he does not, at his age, it will be a shame. It will be tough to make up for lost time.

    I have nothing against the product; it’s nice to send cards. However, at this point, I could easily see SOC going direct; that is, now that they are pretty established, they really have little need for the unskilled distributors hacking away at it. Anyone with SOC ought to be scared spitless. If you have not made your millions within a year or two, it will be over. Even if SC does not go direct, every person who joins has less of a chance to make much. How daunting is that? The only people I am jealous of is the founder; they will have made a mint off of hapless people.

    Last point–have you noticed that just about every person who has taken umbrage has mentioned that they did not get in SOC for the money, yet they bought a distributor package “just in case” they could get a friend or two in the biz? What this really means is that they DO NOT believe this is a great business, and they are willing to con their friends.

  50. Kerry Palmieri March 30, 2010 at 8:12 pm #

    Keith,

    Did you know that when you get involved in a MLM you actually own your own business?

    Anyone know the stats of owning your own business? How many people fail when they own their own business? I am sure the stats are very high for failure. And most people lose money the first few years of owning a business before making a profit. Go around a talk to people who own their own businesses. Like restaurants and insurance companies and Franchises! Why aren’t they scams?

    Keith, I am so disappointed in you and this thread. You just don’t like the model and you know what? People do make money in MLM’s. What you fail to realize is that for some people making an extra $500 a month is exactly what they want. It is a second form of income for them. Others, want to retire and make 300K a month. Is that realistic for most people, the answer is no because the numbers say it all. Only a small percentage of people make a large income. The best thing about MLM’s is that YOU are in control of how much money you make.

    I hope you go out an companre MLM’s to small businesses…it will really open your eyes how similar they are.

    MLM’s are not scams…the people who promote making millions of dollars in MLM’s are the scammers.

    Hope this helps people out there decide whether MLM’s are right for them.

    I am a Distributor for Send Out Cards and I have a partner. We have a very large client base and a moderately large team and we work it together from home. We have kids and it is such a great fit as we make our own hours. We make money every month on our Clients and also with our team. We spend the time to train everyone to use the system. It is our business and we treat it as such and are very successful..

    Hugs,
    Kerry xoxo

    Thanks,
    Kerry Lynn Palmieri

    • Keith March 30, 2010 at 8:26 pm #

      Kerry: Thanks for a thoughtful comment. I disagree that MLM’s are like other business in their failure rate. I owned my own business for several years, and it failed. It failed because my net (not gross) income was only 2.5k per month which was not enough to support my family. In sendoutcards that sort of income would have put me near the top earners. The point is that the standards of success are very different. Quickly looking at the stats, I don’t think I’d consider myself successful at anything other than eagle level (and nobody’s gotten there yet to my knowledge). If I made 500 dollars a month at my business I would have folded in a month. I agree with the previous poster that the amount of effort required to reach success in MLM’s is so ridiculous that it’s better to just it’s confusing why people even bother when they’d have a better chance, and work less, at a brick and mortar business (or online advertising as in my case).

      While we disagree, Kerry, I certainly appreciate your comment and your contribution to the discussion.

      • JONATHAN August 9, 2011 at 9:43 am #

        Hey Keith,

        I believe the “real” question or at least one of them that hasn’t been asked yet is why in Heaven’s name would they send out a W-9 and require that you(or me)fill that out before I
        (or you)would be sent my(or your)first check?????

        Call me uber-naive but The Greatest Vitamin In The World, into which I fell hook, line and sinker and parted with approximately $600 never required I fill that out–nor give my SSN
        TWICE!!!!!

        God Bless,
        Jonathan

    • Betty R October 25, 2011 at 8:54 am #

      Kerry Palmieri as of Oct 2011 listed as a Senior Manager. Again, with an average gross Send Out Cards income of $5,000 a year. Not much for having “a very large client base” and no way of knowing how many hours of work and expenses to produce this result.

  51. Howard March 31, 2010 at 10:34 pm #

    According to this research – “The failure rate for new businesses seems to be around 70% to 80% in the first year and only about half of those who survive the first year will remain in business the next five years…Of these failed business, only 10% of them close involuntarily due to bankruptcy and the remaining 90% close because the business was not successful, did not provide the level of income desired or was too much work for their efforts.”

    This is not research on MLM businesses, rather, traditional business…

    It appears, according to this research, that tradition new businesses have similar trends as MLM.

    • Keith March 31, 2010 at 10:43 pm #

      Howard: At the expense of repeating myself for the billionth time, the definition of success at a traditional business and at an MLM are totally different. I closed my previous business because I only netted (not gross) 2.5k per month. If that had been an MLM I would have been considered a massive success. You’ve been drinking the kool-aid. If you expect to convince people that an MLM like sendoutcards is going to provide for their families, you’re fighting an uphill battle because most people (not folks looking to defend the mistake they’ve already made) aren’t that thick.

  52. Howard April 1, 2010 at 1:11 am #

    Keith, I have to admit, this debate is starting to get fun.

    Are you saying that your experience in business represents the majority of the 70% to 80% of the new business owners that will fail this year and you are comparing your net $2500 as the standard for a failing business?

    Are you also saying someone who works full time at their business verses someone who works at their business part time should be compared as equals when measuring results?

    • Keith April 1, 2010 at 8:42 am #

      Howard: I’ll put this bluntly. I ran a martial arts academy. I worked from 4 pm to 10 pm 5 days a week (I hired someone to do saturday). Stop making arguments that don’t hold water. You haven’t made 2k at sendoutcards in a month so just admit it. The debate isn’t getting too fun, it’s getting tedious because you haven’t looked at the facts. You are not making money — end of argument.

  53. Howard April 1, 2010 at 7:16 am #

    Keith, another question…

    Do you believe the value of one person’s time spent doing something is equal to the value of another’s time doing something else.

    Example: if I spend 1 hour doing something and I make $10 one time and you spend 1 hours doing something and make $10, but you get a check every month for 2 years does my hour have the same value as yours.

    • Keith April 1, 2010 at 8:38 am #

      Howard: That’s an economics question. The value of our work is proportional to the needs of the consumer. It has nothing to do with hours put in. So, no, time and value are not related. Economics is a complicated subject, Howard. I don’t know what your argument it. If you’re trying to say that sendoutcards sells itself and you don’t have to put in as much effort to get the same reward, then the facts say otherwise. If you’re trying to make an argument for residual income then you’ve just omitted about a chapter of economics from your question, and it’s misleading as it is. Lets just cut to the chase. You aren’t making a living at sendoutcards yet you’re making an argument for it. Why is that? Why are you defending something that hasn’t actually done anything for you?

  54. Howard April 2, 2010 at 8:21 am #

    I have tried to be respectful of your view, but as the famous Rambo says, “He drew first blood!”

    Keith, it is getting very comical reading your posts. You are arguing with yourself. My last 2 posts had no arguments in them. I was just asked a few simple questions and it is apparent your goal was to turn it into an argument.

    The questions I asked were to find out if there is any validity in your quest to prove Sendoutcards or MLM to be scam or if you are one of those internet junkies who build a blog site with nothing better to do with his time, but debate topics that you have no ability to defend except through bigotry and intolerance.

    Your argument is based on a disclosure statement you found on an opportunity page on the Send out cards site of which it is apparent you have very little skill to analyze.

    You read into the data what you want to feed your bias opinion!

    It’s like hearing a rumor that someone is giving away $100.000 to anyone who will jump out of an airplane without a parachute! So, you jump on the phone, create a blog and start telling everyone that whoever is offering the $100,000 is trying to kill everyone he is persuading to jump. But, the information you are missing is the plane is on the ground. You either didn’t take the time to dig deeper or when it is mentioned the plane is on the ground, you are so focused on “everyone is going to die” you are not listening!

    Your assumptions based on the Send out cards disclosure statement are naive and irresponsible. It is apparent you either don’t have the skills or common knowledge to do an adequately or honest analysis of the data put in front of you.

    Your argument is like saying capitalism in a scam because 1% of the working population makes the majority of all the income in the United States. Therefore, it is a scam (Maybe you are one of the socialist that believes this). The facts are 1% of almost every industry that has a sales force make the majority of the money and if it is part time sales force this is going to be even more magnified!

    You keep saying “the facts”. Well, here are the facts based on the disclosure…

    95.47% represents the number of distributors and they made an average of $19.08 per month 2008.

    2.67% represents the number of Managers and they made an average of $93.36 per month in 2008.

    1.71% represents the number of Sr. Managers and they made an average of $543.40 per month in 2008.

    0.13% represents the number of Executives and they made an average of $4401.78 per month 2008.

    0.02% represents the number of Executives and they made an average of $18,821.30 per month 2008.

    69% of all the USA distributors did not make any money in 2008.
    Everything else is an assumption!

    Here are some of the facts you need to gather to make a fair analysis…

    What was the average time spent per distributor?

    What are the figures for 2009 and/or 2007?

    How many distributors are part time?

    How many distributors are full time?

    How much is the average distributor spending to promote their business?

    Is the income being earned perpetual or earned one time?

    What is the retention rate on customers?

    One could assume that there is no money in Send out cards, but it would be an assumption on insufficient information.

    One could also assume there is money in Send out cards if one does what it takes to get to an Executive. According to the data, the average Executive got there is 20 months and made an average of $4400 a month in 2008. Or find out what it takes to be A Sr. Executive. The average Sr. Executive made $18,800 a month in 2008 with an average time of achieving that rank 21 months. Again, these are assumptions.

    There is a good case to be made, just from the posts on this blog, that there is some relevance, at least some distributor didn’t get in Send out cards to make money, rather, they got in to refer people and offset their costs.

    You see Keith, there is a lot more to analyzing data than just looking at a disclosure statement and recklessly saying the company is a scam.

    It is a lot more credible to say, “From the initial glance at the disclosure it looks like there isn’t much money in Send out cards, but we don’t have enough data to conclude this. Is there anyone out there who is making any money in this deal or has any evidence that it is a viable business?”

    By soliciting people, both pro and con, you can get a better feel for what is really going on with Send out cards.

    Right now you have a reckless, opinionated blog that looks like the person running it has a bone to pick with Send out cards and MLM in general and comes off as a bigot with no respect for anyone with an opinion other than what mirrors his.

    This may be a fact or an assumption…

    Keith, you don’t know what the hell you are talking about! Let the readers of this post decide, fact or assumption?

    • Keith April 2, 2010 at 9:22 am #

      Howard: Don’t you have anything better to do than argue on the internet? You might want to actually look up what bigot means then take a look in the mirror. The difference between my bigotry and yours is that I’m right. I’m intolerant of your position because you’re wrong. People like you try so hard to defend a system which is clearly a scam to anybody who’s on the outside looking in. It’s the distributors like you who are so wrapped up in selling that you can’t take a little criticism. Look at you. You’ve written this huge response that doesn’t really say anything other than that I’m an idiot. Fine, you can do that, but what does it say about you to anybody who comes to read this? It says that you’re really passionate about sendoutcards (despite the fact that you haven’t made money on it) and you’re willing to stoop to calling people names who disagree with you. You’re clearly the genius between us even though you’re wasting your time arguing on the internet while I make money off of you (You probably didn’t know that each comment constitutes new content and google moves me further up the rankings because of it). So, thanks for making me a few bucks today while you continue to make nothing.

      • JONATHAN August 9, 2011 at 9:54 am #

        BIGOT–”…..opinionated person who refuses to accept different views”
        —————————————————————————————-

        “THAT WOULD BE YOU SIR WITH ALL DUE RESPECT–AND YES I AM SCREAMING THAT TOO!!!!!!!!!!” (As Mom used to say–and still does, “Broaden Your Mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”)

  55. Bill Jenkins April 2, 2010 at 1:55 pm #

    this is a pretty deep argument from a shirtless man with minors… i hope those are you kids!

    okay seriously, it seems like you are both out to make a buck off of me… Keith by getting ppc $ from google and Howard by signing me up into sendoutcards.

    of the two of you, at least Howard is up front with his intentions. Keith, if you would disclose more intentionally how this site profits you and your boys by ripping on other people dreams and aspiration your credibility level would rise to meet your google rankings.

    i guess at the end of the day we are all just dreamers… so Howard gets my vote for promoting dreams and getting out and doing something vs sitting back and pulling people down.

    as for the odds, Han Solo’s exclamation “never tell me the odds” helped me through 10 years in the advertising business… and i’m sure that advice will help both in your perspective endeavors.

    sleep well.

    • Keith April 2, 2010 at 2:16 pm #

      Bill: You seriously don’t know how people make money on the internet? How does CNN dot com make money? Advertising. How does Huffpost make money? Advertising. How do I make money? Advertising (although I don’t make nearly as much). Duh. How do TV shows make money? Advertising. Hardly a scam. I have 350 + articles on this site that have nothing to do with MLM’s. Google adsense is running on every single page. If you didn’t notice that then that’s on you, not me. TV shows don’t “disclose” that they’re advertising because the advertisement are right there every 8 minutes. In fact Adsense even says right on the advertisement “ADVERTISEMENT”. Duh. I’m not just sitting back pulling people down, Bill. I’m sitting here telling other people how they’ll get pulled down by listening to people like Howard (and I guess yourself now that you’ve been sucked in too). Furthermore, this site is a full time job and judging from the fact that people like you keep commenting, I must be providing value (entertainment value at least). If I can persuade just one person to not throw away their money on MLM’s then I’ll have accomplished something.

  56. Howard April 2, 2010 at 7:04 pm #

    Let my try it again and see if you delete it again…

    “You’re clearly the genius between us even though you’re wasting your time arguing on the internet while I make money off of you (You probably didn’t know that each comment constitutes new content and google moves me further up the rankings because of it). So, thanks for making me a few bucks today while you continue to make nothing.”

    You have exposed your true intent with this site. Who is calling a scam a scam?

    You make money by creating controversy to move your site in the rankings and then get paid on the google clicks?

    You are right. Bigot is not the right word to describe you.

    Hypocrite, deception and scam are all words that describe what you are and what you are doing.

    Let me help you with these definitions because it is apparent you have a problem with understanding the meaning of words…

    Hypocrite – 1.a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs. 2.a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

    Deception – 1.the act of deceiving; the state of being deceived. 2.something that deceives or is intended to deceive; fraud; artifice.

    Scam – a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.

    I wonder how many time I have to keep posting this on your site!

    The true scammer is exposed, Keith!

    Now we know how you can be a stay home dad and make money!

    http://www.keithwilcoxscammer.com I wonder if you have enough interest in your name that I could buy a domain name like this and run it up on google to make enough money that people would buy clicks to advertise on that site? Buy a few adwords like, Keith Wilcox is a scam or maybe buy adwords with almightdad.com

    Keith, you little scammer, you!

    Think of all the people who have come to this site thinking you were a nice guy trying to rid people of scams and then they find out that you are one of the biggest scammer of all!

    Are there any other sites we can go to see where you are getting paid for clicks?
    Let’s see how long you will leave this post up or if you will even post it.

    • Keith April 2, 2010 at 7:40 pm #

      Howard: Please, Everybody knows websites make money by advertising. I make money by writing content that is interesting to people. I’m confused as to why you see that as a scam. My advertisements even say “Advertisement” right on them. There’s no deception there. And, why are you getting yourself so bent out of shape? Go ahead and buy my name for a domain if it makes you happy. Spend all that time and money and see where it gets you. You’re passion for sendoutcards is clear. Almost cultish. I spammed your last comment because it was nothing but insults; it was one page of name calling and no information whatsoever. I allowed this comment because I want people to see how utterly irrational you’ve become. Nothing about my site is a scam. I write things I believe in and advertise to cover my costs. That is how the internet works, Howard. The fact that somehow this article has become popular is bonus for me, but I was not expecting it. I want all my articles to be popular of course. That’s the business of writing, Howard.

  57. Doo Dilly April 2, 2010 at 7:46 pm #

    Good grief, Charlie Brown. This discussion has devolved into a scam.com < http://scam.com> thread, with both sides arguing apples and oranges, while neither is getting to the heart of the matter.

    TO KEITH AND DENNIS: To get your point across to readers who may not understand the issues, may I respectfully suggest that you choose your words and points more clearly. To wit:

    1.Do not use the terms ponzi vs. pyramid scheme cavalierly. Both are illegal. MLMs are essentially LEGAL PYRAMID SCHEMES, where a product or service is added to the mix to stay within the law. However, the product is only the means to lure the recruits.
    “MLMs are all in the “business opportunity” business, not “pills, potions and lotions.” And all of them sell the same “opportunity”, which is the chance to sell the “opportunity” to others who sell the same opportunity, forever and ever. Amen.”

    http://www.falseprofits.com/files/ccd44a7f7b79587cb5b233220fff0850-18.html

    2.There is no such thing as a good MLM. They are all the same. Mary Kay, Pampered Chef, Tupperware, Avon, etc. either started as or have become MLMs. Even legitimate companies such as ProActiv and Dove chocolates have jumped on the MLM bandwagon, as the money is so good—for the company, not the “sales force”.
    http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/2009/11/09/consumers-looking-for-the-good-mlm/

    3.You are confusing ancient history, before the advent of, malls, big box stores, and Internet commerce, when people went door to door and sold the product, not the opportunity to sell the product, which followed very quickly. The MLM companies that offer products do not track retail vs. wholesale sales, as that is a dead giveaway. People who exit MLMs have tons of products bursting from their closets. Check eBay or Craig’s List for the deep discounts offered on many MLM products as folks leave and try to just lose their shirts, not their entire wardrobe. The one company that I know of that sells services does not report income earned from selling training aids. And the majority of the “service product purchasers” are also the sales force. Legitimate sales companies do not charge their reps for these materials; while insurance agents and realtors are independent contractors, the companies they work for do not allow unlimited salespeople, as MLMs do. And those folks sell homes or insurance, not the opportunity to sell them, or they would be SOL, as 97-99% of MLM sheeple are.

    4.“IBOs” (Independent Business Owners) of MLMs are nothing of the sort. You “own” nothing; most of you “owe” a lot the longer you stay in.

    5.To get a look at some real numbers, visit and register at http://www.pinktruth.com/ , so you can read both the front page and the threads. This site is primarily for Mary Kay, although there are some threads about other MLMs. See the Kaybot posts, which are identical to the SOCbot posts here, or the Am/Quixbot posts elsewhere. What you will see there that you won’t see elsewhere is detailed information about the deception, the financial losses, and the relationship damage that occurred to the brave women there that have either emerged from the pink fog or are in the process, and have courageously posted their stories to warn and inform others. Sometimes “cat fights” do break out, even between members, as the emotions run high. But the site owner runs a tight ship, as you will learn if you read the mission statement of the site. If you read through the site, you will be armed with more legitimate talking points to make your case.

    6.Finally, as I briefly mentioned on my other post, I do not believe it is okay to simply purchase the product and stay out of the MLM aspect if you have a true sense of the mechanics and unethical, but legal tactics of the MLM model.
    http://www.consumerfraudreporting.org/MLM_ethics.php

    TO THE SOC PEOPLE:
    1.Why are you here? If you are vigorously defending SOC, even as just a marketing tool for your “other” business, your transparency is as “telling” as a Poker “tell”. If I purchase a product or service I like, I may inform my friends or even post a review online somewhere, but that’s it. I’ll leave it to the company to market and sell the product, since I am a consumer, not a rep.

    2.For those claiming earnings or results: Prove it. Redact your personal info, and post your schedule C. See what CPA’s have to say about MLMs:
    http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Mary_Kay
    http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/tax_study

    3.Obfuscation is the hallmark of MLMspeak. Stop making comparisons to Corporate America, franchises, small businesses, Wall Street or the government. It is a specious argument. Just PROVE why the MLM model is good.
    4. Go run along over to scam.com < http://scam.com> , where you argue the merits of SOC and other MLMs to your hearts delight. You can even resort to name calling and profanity. It is akin to ultimate wrestling with mud, knives, and guns.

    TO THE UNINFORMED CONSUMER:
    http://www.mlm-thetruth.com/
    http://www.falseprofits.com/FalseProfitsBlog.html
    http://www.vandruff.com/mlm_FAQ.html
    http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecenter/groups/m/mlm/
    http://www.sequenceinc.com/fraudfiles/category/pyramid-schemes-mlm/
    All of these sites contain links to other sites.

    FULL DISCLOSURE:
    I am not in sales; never have been, never will be. I am simply a consumer who, despite my higher education, was shocked to learn the truth about the horrible and harmful practices of MLMs. My lack of experience in sales or MLMs does not negate my post: I do not have to smash my hand with a hammer or drink a glass of bleach to learn that it would be harmful to do so. While I was composing this post, a few more posters have shown up, regurgitating the same, angry, tired old arguments. This is a blog, not a newspaper. And even newspapers have op-ed pieces. Keep on keepin’ on, Keith. I wonder if any of the MLMs sell anger management tapes or tranquilizers? Or does the truth simply hurt?…

    • Debra Jarvis November 17, 2011 at 8:38 pm #

      And why is it this post has been allowed with many links and every other post with links had the links removed???

      • Keith November 19, 2011 at 6:44 am #

        Debra: I don’t understand

    • Patricia January 3, 2012 at 8:00 am #

      Wow. What a read! I was intrigued by the debate and read for hours last night. After reading Doo Dilly’s post here and on another site, I felt compelled to contribute. I believe that debating MLM and Pyramid sales is semantics. Many of the practices (exploiting the distributor and customer) are the same from recruiting distributors to setting up customers on auto-ship plans. Whether or not there is a product or service involved is moot.

      Back in 1972, I worked in the accounting department for Golden Products, a distributor of home cleaning products hailing from Australia. I was not familiar with the MLM or Pyramid model, but I did witness what I thought were unethical practices even at the young age of 20. New recruits were invited to large presentations and then bullied into initial sign-up and subsequent ‘investment’ to become Generals and higher. If a recruit dared to stand up to leave or simply say ‘no’, the presenters (my employers) would humiliate them on the spot. Recruits would be escorted to the bank to certify their cheques so that there was no time to reconsider their decision. I witnessed people spend thousands of dollars on products that they could not sell. In my first week, men in suits and guns in holsters loaded up our files (Royal Canadian Mounted Police). When I was curious about what I thought was a very unethical ‘cash’ transaction, I was told to that my place was to do what I was told and not ask questions. I resigned after six months. The day after I left, the Toronto Fraud Squad seized all files and bank accounts. My last pay cheque was returned. The company continued (for a short time) by taking cash only from new recruits and distributors.

      This was at the time that the big companies led by Amway and Avon were lobbying for legitimacy by changing the perception of multi-level distributorships and renaming the model. They succeeded by making the distinction between Pyramid and MLM based on a product or service. The model and the practices remained pretty much the same.

      Since 1972, I have been approached by family, friends, and strangers at networking events all fired up because they have found the greatest business opportunity and they want to share it with me. Each one has the same pitch. They claim to have looked at all the MLM opportunities and this is the one with the best product and the best commission plan. When I express that I am not interested, the next line is “you have to try the product” or “come to a presentation/party at my house to learn more”. Although I want to support my family and friends, I am adamant. Even after 40 years, the set-up and sting is the same.

      I have purchased product and services from family and friends. I refuse to sign-up for the auto-ship and I don’t go to parties. Both are clear signs to me that the sales model is coercive. When my family and friends don’t follow-up, it’s a sign that their initial enthusiasm has dwindled. It’s rare that the product lives up to it’s promise and hence, I don’t repurchase.

      My biggest objection to this model is that it recruits people without any qualification or previous experience in sales or even in the product. I cringe when I hear people call themselves “Wellness Coaches” when they are selling vitamins via MLM. BTW, U.S. and Canadian Healthcare Associations are working to stop this misrepresentation. MLM’s will take anyone regardless of their qualifications and experience (or lack of). Their is no risk for the MLM company which is quite different from an employer recruiting and interviewing based on ‘good fit’ for the position. So there goes the comparison with corporations and other businesses with employees.

      Interestingly, I do use SOC as a tool in my business. I tried SOC on a recommendation from a colleague. Neither one of us are “in the business”, just customers. My “sponsor” has long since abandoned me. It was around the time that I cancelled the monthly auto-pay after learning that I could pay for cards on an as-needed basis (not disclosed at sign-up). She is still a distributor. I meet her at networking events and she avoids me. I guess I am not a profitable connection. I have considered canceling many times, but I must say it is a convenience that is hard to give up.

      However, Doo Dilly’s comments made me rethink my position as someone who perpetuates and enables the exploitation that is inherent in this model. Is it ethical to continue to ‘buy and try’ their products? Is it ethical to enable the exploitation of people for my convenience? I am an executive coach with a passion for best practices that make the workplace a better place for everyone. I help executives develop best practices for providing a positive customer experience that results in “good (ethical) profits”. Am I walking my talk? Hmm, I have some thinking to do. I think I know what my business-heart is telling me.

      • Patricia January 3, 2012 at 8:33 am #

        I noticed a few grammatical and spelling errors in my post. My apologies for missing errors in my proofreading

      • Shawn P. Mackey January 18, 2012 at 7:00 pm #

        I really think that all the fighting has to stop. I have read many posts and replies here and both sides have extremely faulty arguments.

        Multi-level-marketing is a great way to make money and it does have a bad reputation as Patricia has pointed out because of all the scare tactics and bullying people used to use to get people to sign up, and some still do. However, she does point out the she uses Send Out Cards as business tool. It is unfortunate that her friend avoids talking to her at events and that only proves the shallowness of most people in MLM.

        I am a Send out Cards distributor and I have also been in Amway and Melaleuca and the thing I have always done in all three businesses is be openly honest and up front with anyone I choose to prospect. I would rather get the details out of the way and lose a potential sign up than have it backfire on me. With SOC, I outline all options to everyone and let them know that they do not need a monthly subscription to use SOC and most of my clients love the pay as you go option because they can do just that.

        I do believe in MLM because it gives people who want to have their own business an inexpensive vehicle for doing so compared to traditional brick and mortar business or franchises. As I construct my MLM opportunity, I still have plans of opening a diner and owning a franchise dedicated to education because that is my true passion and my SOC business is allowing me an opportunity to earn and save the money needed for my own endeavors. I guess any person on the planet can have objections to regular business models and MLM business models. In fact, I know several people who failed miserably with regular businesses and denounce that as a scam. However, one soon realizes that those people failed because they didn’t do what they needed to to do to make the business a success.

        Many people open businesses thinking that the business is going to make them rich and once they realize that they actually have to work, they run the business into the ground and blame their failure on the business and not themselves. I can see both sides of the issue here and if you choose to believe MLM is a scam, well, it’s your opinion and I am not one to judge.

        • Norm June 10, 2012 at 2:56 pm #

          Here, here. You have written one of the frankest, most honest and most civil remarks I have seen on this blog. Kudos to you.

    • Ronald Thibodeau Sr February 20, 2012 at 9:41 pm #

      You just clinched it for me Do Dilly. I have been an “inactive distributor” for years. After this post I am going to cancel my auto-ship and bid S.O.C. farewell.

      This is a shame as I do like the product. Then again, in the past couple of years quite a few companies have entered the fray. Perhaps one of these will suit my needs without bothering my conscience.

      Thank you

  58. Dennis Yu April 9, 2010 at 7:59 am #

    Doo Dilly– or whatever your name is. I think you have one of the most educated posts I’ve seen on the topic of MLM– well-researched with good links!

  59. John April 13, 2010 at 5:23 pm #

    Doo Dilly… happy that someone saw the light! Well done!!

  60. Mike April 16, 2010 at 8:53 am #

    If you look for the negatives, thats what you’ll find.
    The government and every business on the planet is in the form of a PYRAMID. Wake up people and do some more research. MLM is the best business model today.
    SendOutCards is an amazing opportunity, service and company. All the bad information you get is from those that fail and blame everyone and everything but them self.
    All MLM (network marketing) opportunities have there ups and downs and that why it is important to do your home work and talk to the people that are building a successful business. If you think its going to happen over night… continue going to your JOB if your willing to learn and be consistent, have patience and set a 18mth – 2 yr plan…you can be successful in MLM with the right company product and service…..and of course team.
    My 2¢

    • Mary June 10, 2012 at 8:11 pm #

      Great post !Totally agree!

      • Eric White October 12, 2013 at 11:09 am #

        Obviously you have never done your own due diligence regarding this company. The point is, the average person can claim income just by having customers. For an average customer to join it’s $9.80 per month in turn for that amount customers average $1.00 for any two panel card including imported pictures and their own handwritten message. SOC offers a form that when filled out in your own handwriting and faxed back becomes a font that you can you to write your personal messages.
        The people that wish to work from home become distributors, but the customers that use the service are the ones that generate the income stream.
        To just compare SOC to our marketplace, Netflix an online service for watching movies has taken over for the brick and mortar of places like Blockbuster or Amazon for Barnes and noble and even I-tunes instead of traveling to the record store. For you to say that no one is making money from stats from 5 years ago is false. Distributors can be promoted and get a check by just having two customers for $9.80 a month. I don’t know any card store that sells cards where you can have your own pictures printing within the card and sent with a gift ranging from gift cards of all types to baked goods without having to buy stamps, leave the comfort of your own home and save at least $2 to $3 on the price of a retail card. See for self by sending trying the service at no cost to you at: https//:www. Sendoutcards.com/freegift, then rewrite your column.

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